2021 Lineup thread

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  • #166257
    jj-cf-stl
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    At the All-Star break:

    144 O’Neill
    128 Arenado

    116 Goldschmidt
    109 Bader
    108 Carlson
    100 Molina

    89 Edman
    88 DeJong
    88 Sosa
    86 Carpenter

    52 Williams
    41 Knizner
    34 Rondon
    24 Nootbar
    14 Thomas

    The much debated outfield ranks 1st, 4th and 5th, but has also proven that adequate 4th outfielder depth is necessary. Adequate being better than an ops+ of 52, 24 or 14.

    Have the Williams, Nootbar and Thomas auditions been long enough? Would you like to see them continue, or just move on from them as we did with Nogowski? It appears an outfielder now has to get hot in AAA to earn a call-up.

    The much maligned Carpenter and DeJong, along with Sosa and Edman, and are all within 3 ops+, and battle for two infield spots when the starting OF is available. Sosa and Carpenter as the primary bench players.

    Knizner (101 PA’s) and Rondon (41 PA’s) get inconsistent playing time.

    As PH’rs, STL ranks 29th by BR offensive war.

    #166258
    blingboy
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    I doubt Nooty will do any better than Nog sitting around waiting for the odd PA. Uness we come screaming off the line after the break, I wouldn’t mind rotation one of the starting OFers out every day for a couple weeks and see if Nooty can play or not. Then we would know. At least we gave ourselves a chance to know.

    #166259
    Euro Dandy
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    Free

    What is an audition? 3 or 4 PAs a week? Seems like getting into a rhythm would be important, but evidently that’s not the tried and proven way to assess prospects. Don’t want to take PAs away from all the guys who are raking.

    Nogowski led the bucs to victory today by driving in the tying run in the 9th and later scoring the winning run. He got two hits in 5 ABs today. Hmmm. The shortest span of time for Nogowski to accumulate 5 ABs as a Card was 5 days. The longest span for Nogowski to get 5 ABs as a Card was 9 days.

    #166276
    jj-cf-stl
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    I’d agree getting into a rhythm is important. Where in the field is Nogowski getting his playing time?

    #166278
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    All at 1B. I don’t think he ever got reps anywhere else, but haven’t checked.

    #166279
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I have said before, why he wasn’t moved to OF before the ink was dry on Goldy’s contract is a mystery. He might not be able to play much OF, but we cheated ourselves the chance to find out, which is hard to justify.

    #166280
    jj-cf-stl
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    Paid - Annual

    At least Nogowski landed somewhere where he’s not blocked by Goldschmidt.

    #166283
    jj-cf-stl
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    Goldy signed March of 19′ and the 2019 Memphis club was loaded with outfielders. Arozarena, Garcia, Ravelo, etc.

    Thomas, Williams, Robinson, Carlson, Bader, O’Neill also saw some outfield time.

    2020 had no minors action.

    I’m not seeing the missed opportunity to play him in the outfield regularly. He’s been blocked in OAK and STL at 1B. Hope he gets a good chance at PIT.

    #166294
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    I’d agree getting into a rhythm is important. Where in the field is Nogowski getting his playing time?

    1B, RF & Pitcher. 😉

    My point though was what is an audition? Or maybe if they consider Nogowski’s stint to be an actual audition, then why was there an audition. We know Nogowski wasn’t a fit in any reasonable scenario. He was 1 for 18 or whatever. He could’ve gone 9 for 18 and it wouldn’t have made a darn bit of difference. The more weaknesses that accumulate with the active roster, the more of these head scratchers we see. Need better planning/approach regarding who, what position, when, etc., they’re grooming players to meet the needs of the big club and allocate meaningful “audition” time accordingly. Instead, it looks like too many short-term reactionary moves instead of a big picture plan. Talent gaps at various positions make that too hard to overcome I suppose.

    #166309
    gscottar
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    The much maligned Goldy seems to be picking up the pace also.

    #166313
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The front office made it very clear coming out of spring training that O’Neill, Bader, and Carlson would be the starting OF. I don’t think there was any intention of Thomas and Williams getting regular PT. But when the injuries occurred they got their shot and failed miserably. Sometimes that is the way it goes. You don’t always get three months to prove yourself. Sometimes it is three weeks or three days. You have to be ready to take advantage.

    One thing MO has said before, and I agree with, is that MLB is not a developmental league. It is a results oriented league. At least that is the way it is on teams with high fan expectations. If a team like the Cardinals, Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers lose games because their backups can’t perform the fan base is going to be livid. That is not the case with the Pirates, Rays, or A’s. Those teams can be more patient with prospects because what are the ramifications? Their nightly attendance drops form 9500 to 9400?

    #166321
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    MO

    and

    It is a results oriented league.

    Do not belong in the same sentence. That argument should never be used to justify some of MO’s recent moves or allocation of low reps to players he’s peddled away.

    #166325
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    One thing MO has said before, and I agree with, is that MLB is not a developmental league. It is a results oriented league.

    So, don’t get mad when we trade away a player with between 0-300 plate appearances and he goes on to star at another club, right?

    #166382
    jj-cf-stl
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    With the outfield time Edman has accumulated, Sosa is getting infield time that a 4th outfielder would have gotten if they had been productive. Edman could have stayed on the infield had Williams not put up lousy numbers.

    Sosa now ranks 8th on the club with 167 PA’s. That’s spot starter playing time off the bench, created by the rosters injuries. Carpenter 164, Williams 137, Bader 120 PA’s.

    It’s actually Sosa auditioning now instead of an outfielder and he is right there by ops+ (88) with Edman (89), DeJong (88) and Carpenter (86).

    If you don’t fail miserably, you can get a good look with Edmans defensive flexibility helping to make it possible.

    #166394
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    RBI% – driving in others

    (total rbi, minus HR’s, divided by total runners on base)

    20.78% Molina

    16.67% Carpenter
    16.00 Goldy
    15.85 Arenado
    14.57 O’Neill
    13.51 Bader
    13.42 Edman
    12.70 Carlson
    12.12 DeJong

    9.52% Rondon
    9.46 Williams

    6.00 Sosa

    3.23 Knizner
    3.12 Thomas

    Arenado ranks 4th highest in mlb with 246 runners on. Goldy 30th and Carlson 90th.

    BaseballMusings

    #166407
    gscottar
    Participant

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    Do not belong in the same sentence. That argument should never be used to justify some of MO’s recent moves or allocation of low reps to players he’s peddled away.

    So, don’t get mad when we trade away a player with between 0-300 plate appearances and he goes on to star at another club, right?

    I am not defending his actions at all. I am just saying that I read an article once in which he said that MLB is not a developmental league, which I agree with.

    #166447
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    gscottar, I wasn’t criticizing you and I don’t think MLB is a developmental league. I doubt any people believe that it is.

    My point was Mo’s comment is meaningless in that it’s just semantical jockeying. As he’s prone to do at times, he throws out a lot of words to say little, and purposely says vague things for wiggle room. The important part is the execution. Development league or not, at some point the prospects have to be given meaningful reps or you’ll never know. On the other side, continuing to play guys who’re failing because you owe them millions has nothing to do with making performance-based decisions nor being averse to using the big club for development.

    #166465
    gscottar
    Participant

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    I just think it is easier for some organizations to give reps to unproven players than it is others. The Cardinal organization and fanbase is used to trying to win every year, at least in name, therefore there might not be the patience level needed like you may find in smaller markets. I am not saying that is the way it should be but that is the way it is.

    #166479
    blingboy
    Participant

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    The much maligned Goldy seems to be picking up the pace also.

    Hopefully the AS layoff won’t kill whatever momentum he had working up. If he craters somehow we don’t have a backup anymore.

    #169197
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

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    Thru 8-6-2021

    OPS+

    140 o’neill
    129 bader
    123 arenado
    118 goldy
    108 carlson

    The outfield is producing.

    88 molina
    87 edman
    86 sosa
    83 dejong
    80 carpenter

    Catcher and middle infielders, trying to help.

    70 knizner
    68 rondon

    #169272
    1982 willie
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    Gscottar is right. Teams that have high expectations and are trying to win don’t have the luxury of letting young guys struggle unless there is enough around them to hide it, not the fact with the Cardinals the last few years. It’s especially relevant with a guy like nogowski who is a defensive liability for the most part. Now while I agree that the majors is not a developmental league, you can think of some teams in that way a large part of the time.

    #169292
    jj-cf-stl
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    Where are you at on the outfielders Willie? We have Nootsbaar active now. Should he or another farmhand get playing time next season or add from the outside this winter?

    That 4th outfielder role has made 90 starts this season, second behind Carlsons starts. It’s a lot of PA’s.

    #169295
    blingboy
    Participant

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    Nooty has very small MLB sample size, but 12% K rate and as many walks stands out. Yet to get a hit off a lefty, buy only a handful of chances. If he is something besides another T.O. guy I hope we stick with him awhile. I’d be happy to shuffle the outfield and play him for the duration.

    #169296
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    And we have Edman available to spot start in the OF if need be. That also helps open up playing time for Sosa.

    #169302
    gscottar
    Participant

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    The front office may be under a lot of pressure this winter to make sure that 2022 is not a repeat of 2021. There literally may be some jobs on the line. If your job was on the line would you want to roll the dice on guys from Memphis stepping up or would you go get a more proven player? I really like Nootbaar, Capel, and Burleson but I would be tempted to go get someone else.

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