2021 Lineup thread

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  • #154944
    Avatarbccran
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    blingboy – it’s Edman.

    #154946
    Avatarblingboy
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    Along those same lines, if Sosa makes the team, his defensive ability means he would spell DeJong, who allegedly would benefit from regular breaks, reducing the chances Edman would slide over and Carp would get in the lineup that way. It seems DH/PH is all that is there for Carp unless he just outplays Edman.

    #154947
    Avatarblingboy
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    Yeah cranny I know. I’m losing brain cells at an alarming rate now days. My wife always said that would be the second thing to go.

    #154949
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Shildt said Friday he has DeJong and Edman to play SS, and views Sosa as backup. I took it to mean Edman is the backup SS.

    #154950
    Avatarbccran
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    Thanks for sharing, blingboy. That’s a riot. I always heard there were 3 things that started going with age. The first you went to Walgreens to get readers to help. The second, you asked people to repeat themselves so you could concentrate on hearing what they were saying. And the third was ………wait a second, I know there was a third one.

    #154952
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    blingboy wrote:

    A lengthy article on another site (VEB) purports to present the Cardinals lineup “by the book”. They come up one vs RHP and another vs LHP.

    vs RHP

    DeJong SS
    Goldschmidt 1B
    O’Neill LF
    Arenado 3B
    Carlson RF
    Edmon 2B
    Molina C
    pitcher
    Bader CF

    vs LHP

    Bader CF
    Goldschmidt 1B
    O’Neill LF
    Arenado 3B
    Carlson RF
    Edmon 2B
    DeJong SS
    Molina C
    pitcher

    Sometimes I wonder who the idiots are that put together these lineups. I thank the Lord Almighty that they are NOT the ones filling out the lineup cards for St. Louis.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #154953
    Avatarbccran
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    Ratsbuddy – Analysis to numbness. It’s beginning to ruin the game.

    #154954
    Avatarblingboy
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    There is only so much Schildt can do. There is no leadoff hitter on the roster and he has to regularly play several guys with unknown offensive ability. It will be interesting to see how he manages it and what player stakes a claim to what job. The positive side is that by the trade deadline Mo will know what we have and what we need.

    #154957
    Avatarbccran
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    Edman’s not a leadoff hitter? He’s analyzed some bad habits he formed in the shortened 2020 and has worked to correct those this off season. If he gets back to near his 2019 stats, he’ll be a heckuva leadoff hitter.

    #154960
    Avatargscottar
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    One of the main points of the article is that your two best hitters should bat 2nd and 4th. Assuming that is true I would go with:

    2B Edman or Carp
    1B Goldy
    SS DeJong
    3B Arenado
    RF Carlson
    C Molina
    LF O’Neill
    CF Bader
    P

    #154961
    Avatarblingboy
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    Good point he did have a good 2019. You need to cherry pick around his 2019 .290 OBP when hitting 1st though. He seems likely to get the first chance at leadoff, hopefully he will stake his claim.

    #154963
    Avatarmspaid
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    I wonder if Schildt is setting things up for a Carpenter rebound. If Carpenter were to have the spring training of all spring trainings and come out looking like Lou Gehrig then he’d be the 2nd basesman and Edman would go back to being the super sub.

    #154964
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    mspaid, Mo blocked Carpenter with the Arenado trade, so it’s not on Shildt to make sure Carpenters contract plays, imo.

    But, if Carp and Edman are hitting better than the 3rd best outfielder, what does Shildt do? Does Edman see more outfield starts? I think he does even with Mo’s current outfield auditions taking place. Mo said if you hit, you play.
    ———-
    GS, a very likely lineup you have there.

    #154968
    Avatarbccran
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    Good description – outfield auditions.

    Headline – “Team with sights on World Series, auditions for 3 outfield roles.”

    #154969
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    I like the element of speed in the game. Batting Molina in front of O’Neill and Bader nullifies that, should Yadi get on base. Its tough to hide a very slow path clogger and it irks me when it costs runs.
    Spring training will sort out what the order will look like…. no one has had a single at-bat yet.

    Right now, its fair to say that Goldschmidt-DeJong-Arenado-Carlson should form the 2 thru 5 spots. I like Edman on the top… but he has to earn it.

    #154970
    Avatargscottar
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    I like the element of speed in the game. Batting Molina in front of O’Neill and Bader nullifies that, should Yadi get on base. Its tough to hide a very slow path clogger and it irks me when it costs runs.

    That is true but O’Neill and Bader are going to have to prove they can hit better consistently before they are moved up in the order. Their speed on the base paths doesn’t matter if they can’t get on base.

    #154971
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    bccran, I would say Mo’s “outfield anchor” is not auditioning in CF. Judging by Carlsons playing time when he debuted, and if he lives up to your expectations, there is really only one outfield role up for grabs, not three. A bit too much fake drama for me to agree, but thanks for the “good description” of the available outfield role.

    #154972
    Avatarbccran
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    I would say, JJ, that Carlson is a sure thing. Bader isn’t sure yet. He could be another Bourjos. And if Carp comes back stronger, you’ll probably see Edman in left field again.

    #154973
    Avatarblingboy
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    Carlson is a sure thing to play every day, but that’s all. He hit .280 in the Texas League two years ago. The rest is just spew on green bar paper until and unless he puts up some numbers that matter, and he won’t take anybody by surprise this year so it doesn’t get easier.

    Bader has hit .235 over 1000 PAs in MLB. What is he sure to do? We have a bunch of outfielders that aren’t sure to do anything. They might though, I am not saying they won’t. I have hope, but I’m not getting caught up in the hype.

    We don’t know what will happen during ST, but as of now Edman seems like he will get a shot at starting 2B and hitting leadoff. He will have to be better than Carp to keep the job. Carlson will get a good bit of play time and 4 or 5 other OFs will cycle in and out. Its the only way to get all those OFs a meaningful number of PAs. You can’t do it if Bader is out there most of the time and the rest are sharing only one spot.

    #154974
    Avatarbccran
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    They’ll rotate the guys at ST so everyone gets a good look.

    #154978
    Avatarblingboy
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    They’ll rotate the guys at ST so everyone gets a good look.

    Come on cranny. Mo didn’t have to move Fowler and eat his contract to take a look at these guys in ST. We all know what we are going to see this season.

    #154979
    AvatarCards667
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    The only thing that makes sense to me is
    1. Edman 2B
    2. Carlson RF
    3. Goldschmidt 1B
    4. Arenado 3B
    5. DeJong SS
    6. O’Neill LF
    7. Molina C
    8. Bader CF

    And I’m not sold on O’Neill at all. Could be Edman in LF and Carpenter at 2B if Carpenter can hit, but his bat speed looked bad the last 2 years. If he gets back to gap to gap hitting and thinking doubles and not HR it could be beneficial, but at what cost to the defense. O’Neill was supposedly GG in LF last season and I think Edman will be an excellent 2B.

    #154987
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Cards667 wrote:

    The only thing that makes sense to me is
    1. Edman 2B
    2. Carlson RF
    3. Goldschmidt 1B
    4. Arenado 3B
    5. DeJong SS
    6. O’Neill LF
    7. Molina C
    8. Bader CF

    Finally, someone that knows how to construct a lineup. Thats pretty close Cards667. I might flip Goldschmidt and Arenado, however. But for the most part its all good. At least at this point in time.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #154990
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    I’d like to know if the Cards plan to give Edman OF practice. I have confidence in him playing out there. I don’t think that we’ll get to the point where he becomes a starting OFer but it is nice feeling that he is an option. He will improve wherever he is playing. If he gets his hitting into third gear again, how much would that improve this team? Tons.

    As for Carpenter… my thoughts are that he was rattled by the shift and wasn’t able to hit to left field to the point where teams would give up on the shift. I believe he felt that the shift took too many hits away from him and because he is not speedy to first the shift covered a larger area in right. I also feel that he was discouraged to the point that it became a head thing and probably still is. Hitting the ball well during batting practice isn’t converting to more hits during games. They are just flat out robbing him. It becomes demoralizing.

    #155000
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    For mlb during 2019, batting second had 18 less PA’s than batting leadoff. Third had 17 less PA’s than batting second. Cleanup had 16 less PA’s than third. Fifth had 15 less PA’s than cleanup.

    The difference between batting one of GoldenAdo second, vs fourth, is 33 PA’s by mlb averages. A weeks worth of PA’s over the course of a 162 game season. Over a 7yr contract, 231 PA’s, one-third of a season.

    If STL has two players good enough to bat ahead of Goldenado it makes sense for the RBI potential. If not, leadoff and then the GoldenAdo pair gives a better hitter more PA’s.
    ———-
    Here’s why, for those it interests.
    The league avg OBP for batting first and second combined was .340, for 2019. STL ranked 24th with a combined .321 OBP. During the shortened 2020 season the lg avg OBP batting first and second was .333, with STL ranking 20th with a .322 OBP.

    MLB’s overall OBP of all players was .323 in 2019 and .322 in 2020. STL is basically putting a league avg OBP at the top two spots in the lineup, the last two seasons. League avg isn’t always a bad thing, but league avg batting first and second is underachieving badly relative to mlb.

    By OPS, STL has been 26th and 30th batting first and second because we barely managed a .400 slg% in 2019, and much worse during the shortened 2020 season. No damage.

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