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For the DH spot I’d be willing to see them take on an expiring contract if it upped the return for Arenado or Gray. Guy like Mitch Garver or such. Or sign a Rhys Hoskins, Mark Canha, Adam Duvall, Max Kepler(LH though and probably needs to be RH with all the LH bats), J.D. Martinez, Justin Turner, or maybe even Eloy Jimenez on 1 year rebound contract or cost friendly due to age and hope they do enough to sell them in July. Could possibly just go with Baker and sing a veteran UT guy for the bench too, like Kiké Hernández or Kyle Farmer, could possibly keep Fermin for that role.
I also forgot Bedell for a possible long relief in house option there. For the open reliever spots, Walker Buehler intrigues me as a reliever if he’d be willing to do it. Always lots of relievers on the rebound or aging. Brebbia, Barlow, Floro, Graveman, Ottavino, Sewald. Plus guys who will be DFA this winter.
If Arenado and Goldschmidt had hit as they should have, and if Gorman and Walker had hit as anticipated, the comments on this thread would be much different. I’m not blaming the organization. The only one who explained why he couldn’t hit any more was Arenado. He said it was because the pitchers had gotten so much better.
If ifs and buts were cherries and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas. 2 years of complete “underachieving”, the program isn’t working. Minor league players aren’t ready when called upon. Thin minor league system. Reset, rebuild. And if Oli is the one who built the staff around him then he needs to go too even though I don’t think his managing was the major issue, but they ran out Matheny quickly and Schildt quickly. And Schildt has done real well in SD now. They went with Oli over Skip and Skip won manager of the year and then a completely decimated with injury roster and front office changes this year. Cardinals won 83 games and the numbers say they were very luck to win that many with -47 run dif. Worst in baseball vs the fastball.
Rumor is Oli is staying, the staff around him sure needs all changed if so.I’ll be at work and miss the news conference, so I hope I can count on some full contact comments from you guys to catch me up. No mamby pamby lipstick on the pig stuff.
But if you look at the numbers they actually need closer to 13-14 wins. Most metrics show with a -47 run dif and such they were closer to a 76 or 77 win team. The Cubs on the other hand the Cubs also had 83 wins with a +67 run dif and that means they should have been around 88 wins. Their upper minor leagues is pretty strong right now too. Arizona wont make the playoffs if the Mets win 1 of the 2 with Atlanta today. they have 89 wins and a +98 run dif. For the Cardinals to succeed they need to score 75 more runs AND give up 75 less. DeWitts want to be cost effective and this team if FAR from it right now and blowing it up and rebuilding it is what its going to take.
Pass.
90 wins puts attendance back. Other revenues sources are shaky. The org needs attendance back bad.Maybe the local media is not so soft after all…
The morning paper in St. Louis. 🗞️⚾️ pic.twitter.com/tJL8gKVTP3
— Benjamin Hochman (@hochman) September 30, 2024
From Denton this morning on Goldy…
While the Cardinals aren’t expected to pick up the $12 million club options for veteran pitchers Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson, the club does have a strong interest in trying to retain free agents Paul Goldschmidt and relievers Andrew Kittredge and Keynan Middleton because of their abilities as leaders for the young core.
https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/john-mozeliak-oliver-marmol-returning-to-cardinals-in-2025
I think Kittredge will have many teams willing to offer him more than the Cardinals will and a better chance at winning. I could see them taking a chance bringing back Middleton and he could take the chance for a rebound year with the Cardinals too.
Kittredge would be a much higher priority to me than Middleton, but I would think he will have plenty of teams that will give him more money.
I think its a big mistake bringing Marmol back, I don’t like the way he handled the young players the last 2 years…still cannot believe they extended him before the season started.
Really makes no sense to not just move on from Mozeliak, he is basically a lame duck as he has said he will be stepping down after 2025.
If the Cardinals are in such a dire condition that they have to get rid of some of their best players, the immediate future looks bleak. In 1 year, Mikolas and Matz will come off the books. Gray gets another increase but they could come up with some more savings, if need be.
In addition, the Cardinals could cut payroll by around $30 million for 2025. All they need to do is not sign any free agents, not pick up any options and let all of their expiring contracts walk.
Not picking up any free agents for the outfield means they likely won’t be competitive next year.
So, they might as well unload all the big money (players making more than $10 million per year) contracts they can.
I think a lot of the issues are also the DeWitts claim the organization is bleeding money while also being passed up in many minor league development and training facilities and “not having” the money to improve. I think they are going to try to shed contracts, rebuild the minor league system, shed dead weight in the front office and unnecessary jobs and put money into development and be cost effective. Bloom came from Tampa, before Boston, and saw how they worked with a much more limited budget than what the Cardinals are dealing with. It may not be an exciting couple of years at the St. Louis level, but I have been of the belief for a couple years that tearing down and getting rebuilt from within had to happen. They still have some young and youngish MLB hitters, especially if they can get Gorman and Walker on track. OF of Nootbaar, Siani/Scott, Walker IF of Gorman, Winn, Donovan, Burleson and Herrera and Pages catching and have Crooks and Bernal on the way there. The offense should be able to be built around. The pitching will be thin and where a lot of the issue has been with having no money to spend and a thin minor league pitching to call upon.
The rational view is that not picking up anyone for 2025 means the team will not be competitive next year. The optimistic view is that the Cardinals invest heavily in the development of players in the minors and major leagues (Gorman. Walker, Liberatore and McGreevey) and the Cardinals compete for a playoff spot.
If the Cardinals have to get rid of their expensive players to put the proper investment into development, then do it. However, they have the money already coming off the books to stay semi-competitive and make the needed improvements. I also believe the Cardinals will not get a good enough return from trading Contreras and Gray due to their age and contracts.
I watched the press conference. Not really anything that wasn’t expected.
Mo stays GM. 2025 his last year.
Chaim over player development in 2025. GM for 4 years after.
Girsch gets moved to special projects.
Major League payroll heading down.
Nothing said about other positions.
Neither of the DeWitts really comes off all that well. Mo did ok. I thought Chaim was the most interesting and certainly the most engaging of the group. But in the end, no one really said anything that we didn’t already know or assume other than maybe the Girsch move.
Also, watched the press conference.
Multiple questions were asked about how the player development system fell off. Every answer danced around the question so there was no real answer.
Several questions were also asked about specifics of how they were going to improve the player development system. Again no specifics were given.
There was one question about if the decrease in attendance and empty seats sent a message by the fans. They basically said no that they had budgeted for decreased attendance.
Lastly, Mo started his prepared opening statement with a smug look on his face and saying that he was going to be back whether people liked it or not.
Mo also took credit for bringing Bloom into the organization.Unless Girsch provides some sort of expertise for the Cardinals, why keep him? Budget trimming should come from the front office, in addition to the roster. No need keeping legacies at this point. Not trying to be cold. Just want the best.
I’m guessing Girsch is under a contract. This is a way of saying “go ahead and apply elsewhere and we’ll support that move.” But that’s just my guess. I’m also guessing Bloom will act as the VP to Mo and probably have equal say on any trades or free agent acquisitions. That way it’s cleaner for him with Girsch out of the way.
Like others, I felt that the press conference was a bit of a song and a dance. Bloom should be a step up over Mozeliak at this point (I do think Mo did a great job for much of his tenure, FWIW). The Jupiter complex will become the new Ballpark Village siphoning money off the on the field product for years ahead, it seems like.
I think a lot of the issues are also the DeWitts claim the organization is bleeding money while also being passed up in many minor league development and training facilities and “not having” the money to improve. I think they are going to try to shed contracts, rebuild the minor league system, shed dead weight in the front office and unnecessary jobs and put money into development and be cost effective.
Dewitt is now claiming to be poor because it is the MLB way to seek handouts from taxpayers. The Cardinals started angling for taxpayer money last year. Billionaire entitlement.
The entire amount spent on rebuilding the minors will probably be less than $5 million per year. They are going to be shedding much more than that in payroll. Again, they are great at the PR spin. What they are really doing is improving profit margins.
The optimistic view is that the Cardinals invest heavily in the development of players in the minors and major leagues (Gorman. Walker, Liberatore and McGreevey) and the Cardinals compete for a playoff spot.
I don’t think anybody can rationally expect the Cardinals “rebuilding efforts” for minor league development to have that kind of effect in one offseason.
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