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The ’73 Mets went 82-79 in the old NLE and then took that year’s WS to a 7th game before losing to the A’s. The Redbirds almost caught the Mets that year after a horrendous start in which they went 3-15 in April and were 15 games under .500 by mid May. They finished up 1.5 games off the pace in the NLE.
In 2022 we won 93 games and our best pitcher (Mikolas) went 12-13. Our next best (Wainwright) went 11-12 and third best (Hudson) 8-7. Matz went 5-3. Monty and Q came and went 6-3 and 3-2. We didn’t have any world beaters. Mo and BDW know that, they were here.
It worked once so it could work again, as far as being ‘competitive’, I mean. That type of rotation could probably be had without dismantling our core lineup. The pen would need some help, but that doesn’t take trading a Gorman or an Edman either.
There is a chance we are over estimating the type of rotation Mo has in mind.
Helsley as the closer was 9-1 with 19 SV’s and an ERA of 1.25 and despite being only 3-2 in games in which he was the pitcher of decision, the Cardinals were 9-3 in games in which Quintana took his turn. Also, Woodford and Stratton were a combined 9-0, both with an ERA under 3.00. In my view, the BP and the trade deadline were the factors that tipped the balance in ’22, but it also didn’t hurt to have Albert and Yadier on the roster.
Yes TD, but the fact remains it can be done without dominant starters. Other things have to fall into place as you say, but having those other things in place might be more appealing to BillMo, not to mention cheaper, than acquiring a dominant rotation.
Yeah, anyone that thinks Johnny’s going to add more than one SP’er of any note is kidding themselves.
Philly has things under control up 8-2 over ATL in the 8th. Looks like the Braves are going to have to win 2 in a row to survive. They’re certainly capable, but if I’m a Braves fan I ain’t happy at the moment.
people are way over estimating the type of rotation Mo has in mind. It will be another half-assed C+ rotation that will either get a wild card or fall a little short. If they make it to the playoffs it will be the usual one and done. That’s all Junior will spend.
I’m not over estimating Nate. The gist of what BDW3 said is revenue is down and they are going to spend what it takes to get revenue back up. They aren’t going to spend more than it takes. That wouldn’ make good business sense.
Nathan, totally agree! Those expecting Nola, Gray and Montas are gonna be sadly disappointed! More like Quintana, Freeland and a third bottom feeder! And yea Bling we could win (82-80) with that group but not much else! I’m getting old! I don’t wanna wait any longer! Do something BIG or step aside and let someone else have a try!
He’ll add two good starting pitchers and one fair starting pitcher. Utilizing both trade and free agency.
I expect more of the same. Get some guys that once were somebody and pray that they will be somebody once again. If they choose to actually up their game and get proven guys then I will be pleasantly surprised.
My expectation is a couple of middling types. Those are expensive anyway and probably not a great value (e.g. Leake, Matz), but I won’t believe they’ll spend more until it happens. We know the aisle where BillyMo hangs out. In fairness, it is a hard thing to get right and they just can’t stomach what it takes to go for the gusto.
The third arm I think will not happen and they’ll source from in-house. It’ll be justified as you don’t make deals just for the sake of it, there was nothing else we could get excited about, couldn’t arbitrage to an advantage, we are optimistic with players X and Y, yadda yadda yadda.
I always remember that payrolls don’t always equal success and there some really good examples this season.
Having more success may be just getting good advice from the magic eight ball. Ask the right questions and you can make it to the WS if the answers are correct.Picking up guys that over-perform for you is still a craps shoot. All the frigging data in the world can’t tell who it will be. If it could we wouldn’t need GMs. It would all be out there for all 30 teams to see in black and white.
One thing that GMs dread is having a big contract guy get seriously injured (see Aaron Rogers) or become a bust (see Fowler). The ones that go belly-up stay in the memories of owners and fans alike. That gives cause to why I can’t believe Mozeliak that still has an office at Busch.
When is the last time the Cardinals traded for or signed a top notch pitcher? Seems like forever, and now they are gonna do 3 in one year! Not buying it at all!
I am in favor of the front office being more aggressive this winter than they normally are but I don’t think that has to be mega contracts to starting pitchers. Frankly, I think signing pitchers to long term contracts is just asking for trouble. I would focus more on shorter term contracts with a larger AAV or trade for pitchers with only one or two years remaining on their deal. Long term deals for position players can work but with pitchers it usually ends up being a disaster.
I think someone from the group of Liberatore, Hudson and Woodford will step up and surprise us. Wouldn’t doubt it if we sign one fairly expensive pitcher, and a young guy currently in the organization steps up and has a better year than the expensive guy.
But who knows. We just need to get back in the hunt. As we are seeing this year, you don’t have to be the best regular season team. Just be competitive.
Had Bochy been our manager in ‘22 and things would have gone the same way in the regular season, I have a sense that we would have won the Phillies series.
So even if we beef up the pitching and get better years from some guys, we better see improvement from the guy making the in-game decisions as well.
Steve60…The last pitcher of note that I can recall was Mark Mulder who came over to the Cardinals during the ’04-’05 offseason in a trade. I looked it up and his first season as a Redbird in ’05 was a good one as he went 16-8 with an ERA of 3.64, but after that shoulder problems all but ended his career as an effective SP’er. Dan Haren was the Cardinal centerpiece in the Mulder trade.
Bikemike…Yeah, it would have been real nice to have had a field manager of Bochy’s stature, but in my view, Zsa Zsa Gabor could have guided this team to a better fate than the current manager. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’ll matter who they add or subtract over the off-season if one of the subtractions isn’t the current manager. I don’t think they’ll ever again win anything while this guy remains. In fact, I think it’ll only get worse.
Miles Mikolas first season with the Cardinals –
18-4
ERA 2.83
WHIP 1.071
All Star
6th in Cy Young votingMikolas also made the All Star team in 2022 on his first half stats –
ERA – 2.54
WHIP – 0.956What happened in the second half of 2022 and all of 2023 when he had ERAs of 4.39 and 4.78?
Can he rebound in 2024?
I can’t see the FO signing two players that have a draft pick attached to their signing. One maybe, but not two. I look for one of our offseason signings to be from Japan, and the third pitcher that doesn’t have the draft pick tied to them. I hear that we are in on several guys that will have a Qualifying offer, but just don’t think they will give up a 2nd and third round pick.
The Phillies look like they’re wearing road uniforms from the mid to late 70’s.
Edit…Whoops, wrong thread.
Don’t forget that Mikolas was 18-4 with an ERA in the 2s his first year as a starter. Made the All Star team and came in 6th in the CY voting.
He also had a stellar first half in 2022 and again made the All Star team. He dropped off in
Pthe last half of 2022 and most of 2023. Can he rebound in 2024?
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