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I interpreted the the comments regarding Waino is that they would give him one more chance to start but if he gets bombed he is going to the pen.
Of course if they trade Monty and Flaherty they are going to need someone to start games the final two months.
I love Waino but his return is one of the biggest reasons the Cards have stunk this year. That $17M could have forced Mo to go get another starter or at least improve the pen. Hopefully the money will be used this winter and not sit there as “dry powder.”😘
Will be an interesting month coming up for sure.
I hope Wainwright can figure out a way to be reasonably effective for the rest of the year and doesn’t flame out and end up with an ‘injury’ to see out the year.
Agree that if Mo trades away say, Flaherty and Montgomery, who will take those starts? Not sure they currently have the bodies…
Remember that their goal is to acquire controllable players who can help next year. One would think the target is young starters.
FWIW, I interpreted the Waino situation similar to gscottar. Highly unlikely he would be released or traded.
If Waino were to be told he would not be starting the second half, what is the chance he might want to go somewhere else?
Mo says we are going to be sellers. I hope not. Then again, the word “Seller” can mean alot of things.
I am not going to list all the players I want us to keep. But here are the players I would definitely like to see gone: DeJong
And here are the players that we can trade and not offend me: Yepez, Burleson, O’Neill, Knizner, Hicks. Probably won’t get much for these guys so it might be nothing more than a “spare parts for spare parts” type of trade.
And if we do trade some bigger names like Montgomery, Flaherty, etc, we darn well better get a good return for them. I absolutely cannot see Arenado and Goldschmidt going anywhere.
r/Esteemed Rat
I read what Mo wants to do, but I cannot help to have doubts and/or concerns. The track record of this Front Office in evaluating players has been “iffy” in my book. I know they did a great job last summer upgrading the pitching staff. However, the last two off seasons have been disappointing at best.
The 3 I would like to see traded the most are Flaherty, Hicks, and DeJong. Add Montgomery if he won’t sign a 2 year extension. Other seldom used outfielders and relief pitchers can be thrown in to get better returns.
I guess there is something that I don’t quite understand here. What happens if between now and the end of July the Redbirds get on a roll and both Cincinnati and Milwaukee slump a little bit? And all of a sudden the Cardinals are only 5-6 games out at the end of July?
Maybe if we can trade front office people, we might improve. Definitely need to be thinking next year though I’m not sure that’s realistic. I don’t think we can improve our pitching and defense enough to really be thinking great things next season but you never know.
I agree Willie. Even with the addition of players at the deadline the P prospects that we now have will need to step up. The crumbling of this team is on Mozeliak who failed to see that our starting pitchers were not going to be able to get it done this season. The domino effect followed.
I think it is mistake for the team to do TOO much, for it’s failings this year, they were all pretty evident coming in and they were not addressed in the offseason.
starting pitching:
– depending on a retiring Wainwright for the 5 spot was problematic, even with Libby at AAA
– depending on Jack to return to form as an impact SP
– Matz BECOMING an impact or even dependable SP
– Mikolas and Montgomery being your “go to” guys was shaky thinking, maybe Mik but even Monty was a stretch even after his fine addition at the deadline
– team was carry 2-3 (with all things considered and with depth) dependable SP
– that was AWLAYS going to be a problem and we saw it, team had no stopper and injuries were going to happentoo much of the same player:
– Yepez, Burleson, Baker…maybe even Gorman and Walker in a pinch
– bat first players with power, and promise but no dependability or track record
– also produced issue of no backup CF when ALL of the starting OF went down to injury (Carlson, Noot, Oneill)No one could have predicted or dealt with the injury bug to the outfield that the Cardinals got and since it has healed up hasnt been all that bad
depending on Walker for anything:
– he is an amazing talent but him being ran out there opening day was bad despite his successes
– i love the kid but that the team felt he was NEEDED despite “earning it in spring training” (which while the total numbers look good, they were all padded by early ST stats, he fell off late hard)
– Walker “earn it” gave the front office excuse to not upgrade the depth or veteran ranks for the bench in OFContreras signing was typical over reaction by Moz:
– see past similar mistakes in Fowler, Leake, Ozuna trade
– all were reaches on second choice players that were second choice for a reason
– they missed on Murphy BIG TIME…not just in hindsight…we may never know the real ask, but not working out a deal is a killing blow to finances
– that money SHOULD have been used on a starting pitcher, and that starting pitcher should have helped them still be in contention right now and not selling off
– Ivan and Knizner are not flashy, they arent Murphy…not even Contreras, but they were ready to split the job…and instead of spending that money AT LEAST on a solid SP they overreacted and signed Contreras who is NO slouch, but with Ivan and Knizner you didnt have to do it, you could have waited and saw what you had in your own kidsNot spending MORE:
– despite the miss on Contreras they could have spent on starting pitcher and they decided not to
– they chose to bet on their cobbled together SP ranks over their young hitting talent and seasoned youngsters Ivan and Knizner to hold the fort down and battle it out for who is ready, knowing at the least they could cover defensively and their woudl be no problems with getting to know the staffThey need to recognize they have a good team, but will have to spend in the offseason for pitching….but they also have parts that should bring them back a decent prospect or two and hopefully a young pitcher
– 2 of Yepez, Burleson, Baker are fine young hitting talents that just dont have a place on this roster, but need to go as the team needs to deal for what it DOESNT have
– DeJong needs to go, even if just to make room for Edman starting or Winn coming,
-There is case to be made for dealing Edman now, but with his play in CF, they may not want to lose him if they deal an outfielder
– one of ONeill, Carlson…. Edman, still value, if not what it was
-Monty or Jack…not both (re-sign one)
– Stratton, Ver Hagen, Genesis, Hudson, Woodford all can go
– one of Ivan, Knizner…or even Willson…all have value just varying levels
package some young/good hitting for a young starting pitcher (with control) from a team pushing for playoffs:
– Gilbert, Cease etc.
– maybe Gilbertpackage rental pitchers etc. for upside young talent
– Reds? Jack for Barrero (that kind of deal)deal others for decent prospects from upper tier or better from lower
offseason sign an Ace/2 and re-sign one of Jack or Monty and bring in a veteran SP or two for ST invites
– if it was me, you write a blank check for Ohtani….750m? fine…it will be worth it
– but…more likely Giolito, Gray, Nola, Perez, Severino…if we are lucky Urias
– if Scherzer opts out he is always an option with his StL rootslook for vets to fill bench roles, 1yr deals
StL 2024
– Nootbaar- RF
– Donovan- LF
– Goldschmidt- 1
– Arenado- 3
– Contreras- C
– Gorman- 2b
– Walker- DH
– Carlson- CF
– Edman- SSYepez, Knizner, Barrero, FA OF
Nola, Mik, Gilbert, Monty, Matz/Libertore…kids (to get Gilbert, Edman or better prospects would have to be on the table)
Helsley, Hicks, Gallegos, etc. maybe a FA RP of some quality
It’s not perfect thinking, and there are caveats and options all over the place when it comes to specifics….but the key is starting pitching quality, and clearing out the repetitive parts while embracing some veteran FA hitters of positional need
yeah this is long
Mr. Yepez’ trade value was in the past. He is struggling mightily at Triple-A this year with a BA under the Mendoza Line at .197 and a meager .614 OPS. Here is a recent photo.
Today's @NobodyTrashesTN clean-up hitter, Juan Yepez! pic.twitter.com/JT8UYARYfV
— Memphis Redbirds (@memphisredbirds) July 16, 2023
Yepez isnt doing great…and I am not saying he brings much, but he is less than half a year removed from being very promising
if we evaluate guys only on the first half then why would anyone want many of them?
IMO, struggling in Triple-A is far worse than struggling in MLB. Looking at the photo might give one the impression that he is not in peak physical condition. Not everyone “fits” the same description… 😉
Looks like “Big Bart” Colon trying to go first to third…Heck, place him in the rotation. Maybe Dusty can turn him into a 2 time 20 game winner.
When confronted with the fact that Colon collected almost 50 more W’s than has Adam Wainwright, you almost have to acknowledge that there’s something to be said for Bon-bons…
Yepez is absolutely lost at the plate. I don’t know what happened. But I saw a few AB and he acts like he can’t see the ball and his swings were all super late and just a quick “put the ball in play” type swing.
Yepez was our only bright spot on offense during the 2022 Wild Card series. It looks like he has put away a few doughnuts since then.
#STLCards POBO John Mozeliak: “I definitely think we're going to treat the trading deadline as pitching, pitching pitching now. That’s not to say we're going to ignore a position player that is uber great. But I think the goal would be to address as much pitching as possible.”
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) July 17, 2023
More Mozeliak: “We thought Dakota Hudson might be someone that could give us some innings in the rotation like. So, a lot of the decisions we made just haven't worked out a from an injury or be from performance (standpoint).” (2/2)
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) July 17, 2023
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