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Brian- I question that IMHO no matter what O
Neill does next spring that Shildt will play Fowler in the hope DF can at least play to Peter Bourjos level because of the contract.I dont think Shildt has the guts to sit Fowler and use him as a 4th/5th OF.He didn`t have the guts to sit JMartinez late last season when JMart could hit a lick and went thru a terrible 3 week period .So why would Shildt suddenly grow a pair now?But we can look at the history of what they do.
And last year, Fowler was playing nearly every day even though he was atrocious in the field and at the plate. He finally got benched, they got a new manager, then the new manager started running him out there everyday again.
Then, after the season, he griped about his lack of playing time.
Sorry, if O’Neill is better out of the gate, he needs to play every day and Fowler needs to be the 4th OF. And if Fowler gripes publicly about his lack of playing time, he needs to be told publicly that he needs to earn it.
OK, if you want to play the history game, tell me how many games O’Neill was able to play last spring to prove he was “better out of the gate”?
Makes no sense to me to get upset about what might or might not happen in March and April now. The roster isn’t even set yet.
Did O’Neill play better during the season or did Fowler?
Why did Schildt go back to Fowler?
They’ve coddled him for two years, and he has shown no interest in playing defense. Coddling doesn’t work with him.
I agree. No coddling. Whatever that means. All I suggested is to wait and see what really happens when players start playing. Continue the what ifs? if you want, but I don’t see where it is going.
FWIW, and this has nothing to do with Fowler, I don’t think O’Neill has as of yet earned a starting job. His advantage is to many is simply that he is “not Fowler”.
Never seen a player making so much play so poorly. And if you go to a game and watch him in person, his lack of effort is even more evident.
I don’t like payroll politics any more than anyone else but it happens everywhere. Teams are businesses and they want to exhaust every option to get a return on investment. The question is how long should you wait before cutting bait? That is the $82M question. If Fowler flounders the first month or so he will be on the bench I have no doubt. The Cardinals know they can’t miss the playoffs again.
Do you think the Cubs like running Heyward out there everyday? No they don’t but at least he plays defense.
Do you think the Yankees like keeping Ellsbury on the roster? No they don’t but at least he is kind enough to stay hurt so they don’t have to actually play him.I will say this though: I think Fowler has a better chance of recouping value than Cecil does. Cecil is the one we should DFA.
Brian, what does O’Neill have to do to prove he deserves a starting job? 1.4 WAR in 130 ab’s isnt enough after a superb wrc+ 170 minor league season? Can a guy show he is anymore ready to be a starter without actually being a starter?
CC, as I said in an earlier post, O’Neill needs to stay healthy and cut down on his strikeouts in the majors.
O’Neill’s 40.1% K rate for the season was higher than EVERY MLB player with at least 150 plate appearances, almost 400 of them.
During the season, he did not show enough progress to get me comfortable.
K rate 2018
April/May 43.9%
July/August 38.8%
September 38.2%Perhaps the new hitting coach can help him.
If he puts up a 5+ for 500 ab does it matter how much he strikes out? I dont see how a guy having a couple of short dl stints last year really affects his readiness to be a starter this year.
Considering O’Neill has generally improved his K/BB rate every year and shown improvement in all areas and is just 23 with a probable good upside what’s not to like.Compared to a 32 year old overpaid underachieving lousy defensive player who is clearly on the downward turn of his career and is supposedly not thrilled being in st Louis …
.O’Neill should be the RF since the ipside of O’Neill beats the crap out of anything DF brings.
It’s a pretty despicable notion, but I think one that warrants mention. I believe MLB differs from other American professional sports in that when a player is suspended, the suspended player’s salary does not go to the league or charity, but rather stays in the team’s coffer. This certainly makes you wonder if a team who feels burned by one of these terrible long term contracts have/would ever covertly sneak banned substances into a player’s system. Stranger things have certainly happened.
I’m still in favor of swapping something involving Fowler and Seager to play 3B. Not sure if that could be a straight swap or not, but we could include a Junior Fernandez or another not top 10 but not great prospect. But then what to do with Carp?
1) Would he be able to play 2B? And then trade Wong for something?
2) How great of a return would he bring back if moved? Probably pretty darn good, but then that defeats the wanting a LHH which is why I was so in favor of the trade to begin with.
3) With all of the “If’s” for 2020, who could move around to make it work.
4) Who could be the leadoff guy? Bader or Wong? That doesn’t feel comfortableIdeally, Carp could play 2B…. but how bad would that hurt the D?
Carp, DeJong, Goldy, Ozuna, Seager, Oneill, Yadi, pitcher, Bader would be the best NL Central lineup in my opinion.
Any thoughts?
The only way I see them moving Carpenter back to 2nd is if next offseason, they resign Goldschmidt AND sign Arenado.
Which would give us an OPS monstrous infield (and we’d have one of the best defensive LEFT side of the infield).
– Arenado’s career OPS = .886
– Carpenter’s career OPS = .847
– Goldschmidt’s career OPS = .930
– DeJong’s career OPS = .800Last year, Arenado, Goldschmidt and Carpenter were all in the Top 12 in terms of OPS
If Carpenter got traded tomorrow, I wouldn’t be surprised. Leverage-wise you’d need to trade him before you would acquire a SS/3B to replace him if DeJong slid over. I’ve just got this feeling. Almost the same sense with CMartinez. A lot of times the Cardinal trades are ones you don’t see coming.
I don’t really get into this kind of speculation, but I agree with the general point made by Ny just above. I can’t envision a scenario in which Carpenter would be the every-day second baseman. Something would have to give rather than compromise the defense that way. JMO.
CIF, do you think he was an all-star because of his defense, or in spite of it? Watching him play, do you think Carpenter is an above-average MLB second baseman? Even an average one? Like Skip before him, he was a great team player to try it, but it was a stop-gap, not a solution.
Carpenter at second would be a part of a great fantasy lineup, but fantasy does not account for defense.
P.S. The year he played second was six years ago, in 2013, when he was 27. In 2020, the season being discussed here, he will be 34.
I’ve always liked Carp at 2B, better than 3B. He doesn’t have the quick hands for 3B. Routine plays at 2B are shorter throws and on DP’s he doesn’t have the luxury of lobbing, it as he does at 3B.
Wongs 2020 salary is 10.25mil, which is pushing it. His and jedd 2020 salaries can limit going all in on a godschmidt, arenado, harper type salary.
Don’t get me wrong. Carpenter has been a great Cardinal and has given his heart and soul for this organization. He’s done whatever was asked of him 1B, 2B, 3B… like an all-star Schumaker.
But business is business and personal contributions don’t get figured in. (except for Molina and Wainwright). Matt is a touch underneath those two as far as fan support goes.
Something would have to give rather than compromise the defense that way.
Baseball players can (generally) impact the game more with their bat than their glove (JMart might be the exception).
Bob Reed noted in one of his posts last week that WAR seems to be weighted by batting.
Here’s why:
– In the article you linked to about Bryce Harper’s abysmal defense, it noted that he made 97% of the plays he should have, versus league average 98%. That is NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT.
– He also had -26 DRS, which I’ve pointed out is flawed for many reasons
– But look at his offense – 34 HR, 100 RBI, 103 runs scored, .889 OPSEVEN IF the -26 DRS was really a true measure, which it is not, his offensive contributions OVERWHELM his defensive deficiencies.
You can argue that RBI’s and runs scored are dependent upon your teammates, but so are defensive metrics.
And if you create a lineup with a crazy OPS sequencing, you can sacrifice elite defense for elite offense.
BW: Believe me I am not promoting Carpenter for 2B (to answer your question I think he was more than adequate there defensively). I was merely trying to point out it would not be the disaster some seem to fear if circumstances, trades, etc., put him at second. I’m quite happy with Wong at second with his excellent glove and, until proven otherwise, merely adequate bat.
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