What is wrong with Dexter Fowler and what should be done?

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  • #52945
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    14NyquisT
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    Pugs… I’ll put you down as an over.

    #53896
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    Cardinals2016
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    #53904
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    14NyquisT
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    Cards’16… thanks for the read. The Fowler and Ozuna failures are make headlines and not just in St. Louis. Gee… I wonder if the FO knows about what is covered in the story… ssssh.

    #53910
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    14NyquisT
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    Getting rid of Fowler AND Ozuna will be a major task for the FO, and they seem to be not up on doing tasks. The FO doesn’t want to take responsibility for their two big $$ failures. Card fans are waking up to the fact that neither have helped this team much at all. Management is all in on status quo even if it means missing the post-season again.

    Thankfully we have enough hope for next season when the younger guys will have the two sitting on the bench, and with some very good pitching arms moving up ’19 there will be a lot more success. Until then get use to seeing Fowler and Ozuna delivering nothing except disappointment.
    Note: their value has dwindled into the minus column. NO team would even take Fowler for free. Think about that… AND what we’re paying him. Astonishing.

    #53922
    bicyclemike
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    I have no doubt that Ozuna in particular will be fine. As the article stated, he needs to adjust his approach, and not try to hit everything out of the park. He is a force when he hits the ball to all fields. He also needs to lose the “Randal Grichuk” tendency to swing at pitches low and away, or at least work to go the other way with those if they are up in the zone enough to get some wood on them.

    Dexter is similar in that some of his problems are that he is hitting the ball at defenders more than normal. Both guys will have much better numbers when we review the season stats in October.

    The issue is that both guys need to play to get things working again, but how long do you plod along with them under-performing.

    When you think about it, this team has so much potential that it could end up running away with the division over the second half. With all of the problems, they are still 5 games over .500. Once Ozuna is hitting, and you add Reyes to the rotation, with perhaps Flaherty taking a regular turn as well, this club could put it all together and do great things. Some of that will depend on getting the ‘pen in order as well.

    #53928
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    gscottar
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    I know everyone is excited about Reyes, Flaherty, and the rest of the rotation but unless those pitchers learn how to hit they aren’t going to help us much in the win column if our offense doesn’t awaken from its slumber.

    #53932
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    thejager
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    FO moved on from Leake didnt they? And that was mid-season…and that was at a substantial loss it seems…but for whatever reason that loss was acceptable…the loss/gain ratio for Ozuna nad Fowler…and Carp and Wong etc. all are independent…i dont think they have a problem making moves…but making moves just to make them is not good practice…unless they can get a decent deal out of it then there is limited value in moving guys

    whether you like it or not Carp, Fowler, Ozuna, Wong all have value and i am sure it is value that is in a ledger somewhere in the STL FO…and it fluctuates with play and dollars….and when those trades may be offered or are offered up the numbers and equations start to play out…if it doesnt come up in our favor or at a loss that isnt acceptable then why make the move?

    I’d love to play with the money moving some of these contracts (or parts of them) woudl allow for…but unless we get productions back to make up for the production lost (and yes all the poor players till have provided wins and parts of wins for us)

    As Mike said…with all the crappiness of our offense we are still 5 over in 2nd in our division (3back) and better than the Cubs who so many it seems want us to look like and fawn over their players

    Just look at Carp…when he got hitting just a little bit …the whole team started to play better…we dont need crazy weeks of hitting from Carp (liek he did last week) to fix the team…we probably just need incremental improvements from the guys performign the worst

    look at last year…Carp and fowler are to this day still attacked about how bad they were…but when you look at the whole season at the end…they werent all that bad and both trended way up as the season finished up

    yet Gyorko gets a pass on late season struggles because he puts up a big time first half? and has 50 HRs over the last 2 yrs… so what? yawn… I am more impressed with Gyorko’s growth defensively than i am with bat

    #53936
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    yet Gyorko gets a pass on late season struggles because he puts up a big time first half?

    Well, that and because he plays premium defense at a premium position, missed three weeks in August and September with a hamstring strain and was being monitored for the same strain two weeks after he came back, and had a groin injury in July…

    #53938
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    thejager
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    so none of Fowler or Carp’s injuries give them a pass but Gyorko’s does?

    and his defense has gone up..i said that…i am impressed by that…that has been consistent and a surprise…

    Carp was pretty good late and so was Fowler…they started off terribly nad both dealt with injuries

    #53940
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    No, I think it’s funny everybody last year was attributing Fowler’s slow start to the fact he hit the DL in late June or early July…

    But when Gyorko went into a slump during the part of the season he was injured the narrative is he can’t play a full season…

    What’s Fowler’s excuse this year? What’s his excuse for his atrocious defense?

    The reason Gyorko has improved defensively is that is what he spends his off-seasons working on…

    #53942
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    thejager
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    Fowler is not playing well right now across the board… he also, whether anyone likes it or not, is playing a new position… should it be so hard to shift to RF? i dont think so, but it is a change…and when everything is going wrong

    He doesnt seem hurt, other than maybe pride…but he looked poor last year for a large stretch due to injury and even NOT injury too…but turned it around…

    are those excuses or reasons? depending on bias of the person listening that can be different….if you have already given up on Fowler then it is nothign but excuses…if you see it as a possible explanation or reason then maybe it means you havent given up on him

    Also…why is it funny that a reason for a guy’s poor who goes on the DL in June (less than 1/3 the season) isnt substantial enough a reason? We haev seen it plenty of times with players on the Cardinals and in all of baseball…guys dont admit they are hurt and try to play through it only to have their play suffer because of it….and Fowler after signing a big deal wanting to impress, it is pretty easy to think he might try to play through the little things and his numbers would suffer because of it… it isnt funny at all…

    Also..Gyorko’s 2nd half woes mimic his previous season 1st half woes…has he ever put together a whole season of success? maybe his first year? even the year we acquired him,, he was in the minors for part of the year before coming back and being good

    Also, by saying Gyorko works on his defense in the offseason impies Fowler doesnt…do you have facts on that…both for Gyorko working so extra hard on it…and more importantly that Fowler DOESNT work hard on his defense in the offseason? please show me those facts and we can consider laziness to be a valid reason for Fowler’s play…but if all you have is one side then all that is made up slander to try to prove your point…which is unneeded if all you want to do is say that Gyorko is playing better defensively this year and has gotten better in the last 2yrs at 3b than Fowler has in CF and RF….the slander isnt needed as the play shows that

    I have floated the idea of moving Fowler as many others have too…but that doesnt mean i dont think he will right the ship…and trading him or anyone else who is slumping is pretty reckless as the value would be in the pits…you dont sell low…and man of the guys cant get much lower…you have to ride it out even if you do want to trade him for a loss…and who would want him and ANY of his contract if he is so bad?

    Id think that if you were of the mindset of moving Fowler that you’d believe there IS a reason that he is slumping that can get fixed…because you WANT him to be better so he may be at least a little appealing…his track record seems to show he will turn it around and have a decent year at worst…why throw away that possibility AND all the money invested to watch him play for another team and potentially even against you…

    #53947
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    Also…why is it funny that a reason for a guy’s poor who goes on the DL in June (less than 1/3 the season) isnt substantial enough a reason?

    Jager – this is May 25th. The Cardinals have played 47 games so far. 54 games is 1/3 of the season.

    What is funny, is a lot of people say the reason Gyorko slumped last year is that he can’t play a whole year, he is nothing but a backup.

    But when Fowler slumps for half a year, well, he was injured.

    Also..Gyorko’s 2nd half woes mimic his previous season 1st half woes…has he ever put together a whole season of success?

    So, because he was a backup before he came to St. Louis, he should be a backup here, correct?

    How many years have the Cardinals played Wong when he wasn’t hitting?

    I didn’t say Fowler doesn’t work on his defense in the offseason. Point out where I said that. You said what you are impressed with was his defensive improvement. I gave the reason for it.

    I suggest you take reading comprehension courses, Jager.

    Now, who is slandering who, Jager?

    #53969
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    thejager
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    Ha! Yeah maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of assuming. And if you don’t want to read it all then maybe we are suited to discuss this topic.

    I said implies. And you know that’s why you said it. You Definitwly IMPLIED whether on purpose or not that Gyorko did something that Fowler did not thus your reason for pointing it out in a comparison. Also I asked for your proof of Gyorko working extra hard on his defense as an independent qualifier of even that position not even in relation to Fowler’s offseason work ethic. I’m. Kt being sarcastic. I’d love to see that proof to better understand Gyorko even without Fowler.

    Also. Who says Gyorko is only a backup because of his half season struggles in the past. I actually believe that it has been said. But I fee that it was more said it might make him better suited for a platoon role. Which seems fair. As I said before HAS Gyorko ever out a full season together outside his rookie year? And if not then how can an opinion of whether he can be assumed to be worthy of full time no doubting by fans? Whether by injury or poor play playing a full year (outside small DL or missed games) without prolonged slumps seems a fine indication of a player not having doubts on his status as full timer

    Also Gyorko wasn’t always a backup. If my memory serves he got tat contract he has after his rookie year where he looked so good. Then he started striking out a lot and playing poorly. So much that he lost his starter Gig and eventually was sent down to the minors combined with some injuries. When he came back up the year we got him he came up and won his at bats back by playing well again. He may have been a part timer by the time he came to ya but that’s not b cause he wasn’t given a chance to start. If my memory is wrong then isn’t be happy to be shown better facts

    Sorry about being off the 1/3 of the season by 7 games. But I said less so 8 games. Sorry I was going off the feeling of where we were heaven forbid I’m off by 8 games. And that mistake is so worth your time to point it out with a quote thinking that minor mistake is in any way a major point. But on my defense it isn’t 1/4 or 1/2 so unless we want to do more confusing ratios then I think I’m close enough to get the loot across

    I need. I need no comprehension concerns. And I know exactly who I think is slandering. You of me. Your implication of Fowler without any facts or proof to back it up I think also qualifies at least until I see an apology that you did not mean that and that you do think Fowler works hard on his off-season defense too and unless you have proof that Gyorko does it more than Fowler then their offseason prep is equal at worst

    But all that is on you. I’m happy to read proof of my mistakes backed up by facts. But I’m done with trying to have a conversation with someone who only wants to rail on a guy.

    Enjoy continuing this but I will not continue to participate. But if there is some facts and stats to read that correct me or you or anyone else i do hope someone posts them. If you don’t want to do it. That’s on you. I am fine in my position of the situation right now. Nothing you’ve said has swayed me at all not add me want to spend any longer on this or your instigation. I do apologize if you took offense at my use of the word “slander” but it wasn’t malicious it was just simple identification based on what you were implying to prove your point without quotes or facts to base it on. I’m sure I have slandered people non Maliciously before and that’s just a fact. I don’t think Im a terrible person for it as it happens when communicating based on feelings sometimes. That’s life.

    If you need to respond go ahead. But I won’t. You can have the last word if you want it. I honestly don’t care and if you need it that is totally fine.

    #53987
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    14NyquisT
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    Hey Jag… I see that your man crush is on his way to play with the Mariners… Thank the high heavens.

    #55829
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    #55832
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    gscottar
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    I have to admit that I’m not familiar with the possible connotations with the term “swag” so I don’t know if Mrs. Fowler’s comments are legit or not. But how about just catch the da** ball instead of being nonchalant then we don’t have to talk about it.

    #55837
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    PugsleyAddams
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    There’s a few posters around here that have some sway to their game as well…
    (Cough cough)….RatsBuddy & Nathan….hey anyone seen NathanLeopoldJr around lately?

    #55842
    stlcard25
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    Since this topic was created, Dexter is hitting .277/.358/.340, for a 100 wRC+. He’s had almost no power, which makes his overall line look fairly nondescript. His walk and K rates are fine though. With a little more power, the month looks pretty solid and he would be a positive player overall. The BA and OBP play if he can sustain that the rest of the year.

    #55844
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    The BA and OBP play if he can sustain that the rest of the year

    The defense does not

    #55854
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    CariocaCardinal
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    “Positive player overall”? Doesn’t he have to play defense?

    #55857
    Ratsbuddy
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    I totally agree that Fowler should just catch the ball instead of trying to turn it into some kind of circus routine.

    I’ve often wondered what Whitey Herzog thinks when he sees some of the crap going on with the Redbirds of today? Such as but not limited to the following:
    1) Fowler’s cute little catches
    2) Martinez antics, including his hair
    3) That stupid train thing they do after somebody hits a homerun.

    I’ve often wondered to myself where did our Cardinals go. I thought St. Louis was known for its tough, hard nosed simple fundamental baseball. All we have now is a bunch of guys that like to be cute, pretty, and make a mockery at times of the game.

    r/Rat

    #55861
    stlcard25
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    “Positive player overall”? Doesn’t he have to play defense?

    Note that I said “with a little more power.” Right now I’d probably not put him as a positive player but if the OBP sticks and the power comes back a little that’s a 120 wRC+ player. So yes, that would be positive, even if his defense is not as good. It would be even better if he’s only facing RHP while Bader gets all the lefties and a decent amount against righties too.

    #55913
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    14NyquisT
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    Rats…. you certainly nailed it. I’m glad there is at least one other follower here that feels as I do. Certainly “not limited to” because there are many other cases of players acting foolish and not being professional at all. Some of the general lackadaisical attitude and behavior seems to be permissible for the new fans. Sad state of affairs.

    This sort of nonsense is not limited to our team. It goes on more and more every day all over the leagues. Too bad there aren’t more managers with some guts to limit it to tolerable.

    Its a game but it is supposed to be professional.

    #55917
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    Bw52
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    Too many “look at me” players in MLB.Too much hot dog in many players.Act like a Pro.At least baseball hasn`t gotten as bad as the NBA.Nobody is saying act like a zombie but no need to act like a spastic fool.ACt like you belong in the big leagues…not some Beer league softball game.Dump the damned jewelry ,funky colored hair and general dumbass behavior.Fans want to see baseball…not a damn circus.

    #55923
    Ratsbuddy
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    14NyquisT and Bw52,
    You guys nailed it too. I’m glad i’m not the only one that feels the way I do.

    r/Rat

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