Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

[14NyquisT]

jag…. sometimes you remind me of Brad Pitt’s portrayal of Billy Bean in “Money Ball”.

[gscottar]

Except Billy Bean had peanuts for a payroll to deal with (and still does). The trades that jag comes up with, which would certainly help the team, bumps the payroll close to $200M per year and I don’t see that happening anytime soon with current management.

[thejager]

Eh. I just think out loud is all. Sometimes I’m cheap sometimes I think spending makes sense

As for my earlier thoughts.

Money is definitely going up if we go big player fixes which seems like is where we are going

Without moving Fowler it definitely raises us up next year. But after that it’s not terrible

Waino gone removes about 20m
If we can move Fowler for half cost that’d be another 10
Piscotty gone clears money
Gyorko gone clears money

-Archer adds money but good value for the cost and adds a #1 to solidify
-Stanton is big money but he brings youth and fans and advertising and coverage whether we win or lose and is as scary a bat as there is
-hosmer will b big money but still young and a good dependable bat with good defense

It is big money but each would be major impacts at good ages and top end value and worth

You spend big money on big talent and the fear of losing big goes away with each of these guys as ea h has a proven track record of being good and impactful It’s about as safe an investment as possible IMO

[gscottar]

Waino is not gone until AFTER 2018

[Nathan Leopold Jr.]

if

That is the key word in your post. Everything you said is correct.

Your analysis is sound.

But when do they EVER go big?

[thejager]

GSCOTT… read my post…i said without moving Fowler next year is pretty high but AFTER that it comes down…then i listed all the money that comes off including Fowler and Waino…
it might not have been as clear to you but it was clear to me…

i know when his contract is up…it’s pretty ridiculous to think i woudlnt know that…especially when i list out the rotation for 2018 having Waino/Reyes in it only a few posts before

my point is that yes…next year it coudl be high with Fowler still on the books…if we coudlnt trade some of his money…but in 2019 Waino’s 20mil makes the budget much nicer…

and shoudl we go after 3 big players this year in FA and trades…we’d have little use for the blockbuster FA market in 2019….as we woudl have already snagged everythign we need…young power hitter star, young dependable bat and defender, young ace

i will try to be clearer in the future but i am sure i wont always so some common sense may need to be used when reading my posts from time to time….but i do take some agency in it

and MS…

yeah IF….it is always IF…i am not in charge of anything…i dont see their metrics or worth and value analytics

and yeah…they dont tend to go big…BUT…even last year they brought in TWO big contracts…AND re-signed Yadi and Carlos to big money…. so they actually do go big often… it’s usually just not in the areas most posters like…

but…there seems to be pretty clear indication that they have to make big changes this offseason…and as that seems pretty clear…judging the potential of this offseason to past offseasons seems awkward to say the least…will it mean huge trades and upping the budget to 250mil…probably not… but that is what this thread is for…thinking out differing solutions and ideas and letting them be…their value and purpose for posting isnt about attacking them and trying to stop them from existing… the point is to think through idesa and try to start a discussion… if your only participation in the discussion is to try to end the discussion then why participate?

there are plenty of threads for being a buzzkill and attacking all sorts of things, from stats, to coaches, to players, to management…this is the one thread that is for us to feel free to think out loud and discuss things no matter how ridiculous they might seem to anyone else…if you dont want to participate in that…then don’t….

having said that…everyone has a say…i just dont see why you wouldnt want to throw out ideas too, talk through them…it’s not always the most fun…but it beats being pessimistic about everything all the time..plus it’s fun to think outside the box sometimes…

[gscottar]

My apologies jager for not completely understanding your post. I will try to do better. Your free stream of conciousness writing style is difficult to follow. It is kind of like Robin Williams on steroids (R.I.P.).

But you do have good ideas. Maybe a condensed version would be nice.

[14NyquisT]

Brian Anderson (24) is a 3B in the MIA organization. Good size, good power and he is ready for MLB except he is blocked by Prado. Worth a look-see.

[thejager]

GScott…no worries…i know i can drag on sometimes…i gotta work on it too 🙂

condensed is rarely my thing…but i will think on it sometimes

Nyquist…agreed, but id guess he’d be the kind of low price guy they are going to build around and depend on as they try to move Prado to someone else….

Gordon
Prado
Chen

are all guys who coudl be had for less than asking price id think…and while their salaries arent that great to take on…id take on one to get Yelich and Stanton cheaper

Id take Prado, Gordon, Stanton, Yelich off their hands…throw in Barraclough too…i might even consider Chen

Gordon had a pretty good year…PRado was hurt a lot which isnt good but is a contact guy with a good glove…

but if we coudl get all of them for cents on the dollar id consider it…
we’d have to move Wong in the deal probably but they’d want that, add Pham (cheap is good for them), and add in PIscotty…as well as a young starter like Gomber or Hicks or Woodford…maybe Gyorko in the deal.. i dunno…not all these gusy but cheaper salaries for decent players woudl interest them id think…

Gordon,Carp1,Yelich,Stanton,Fowler,Yadi,DeJong,Prado/Diaz3,pitcher

Gordon gets on base as it, Carp woudl hit or get walks moving Gordon over AND i think he’d hit well in front of a hitter that people didnt want to pitch too his eye is already impressive, Yelich or Stanton in 3 spot drives in peopel or gets them over…and the following drives them in…the you start over with the 2nd 8 and a leadoff/power guy like Fowler followed by a good hitter inYadi, the Dejong to drive em in along with Diaz/Prado

Im not saying we go with one big trade to fix our issues…only that Miami matches up well…AND has a lot of parts that woudl upgrade the offense all without driving up the payroll like a big FA signing or two woudl do…

so let’s say:
Gordon Prado, Yelich, Stanton (they eat a little money now because we take on Gordon and Prado and Yelich)

for

Wong, Pham, Garcia, Gyorko, Gomber, Gant, Fernandez

we take on a lot of money…they cut payroll big time and get some cheap contract MLBers and a few young prospects…

not enough? too much?

then use the other prospects to bring back a nice SP like Archer… Piscotty + FLaherty + Woodford + Sosa

sign Nicasio and a backup catcher and call it an offseason 😛

[SoonerinNC]

AL East Possibilities
Boston
Strengths- offense except 1b with 31 year old Moreland. Sam Travis a so-so possibility to replace. Benintendi a potential super star. can play left or center field.
Front end of rotation Sale, Porcello, Pomeranz and Price. May be a top contender for Lynn as a free agent. Would have been a great trade deadline deal.
Bullpen with Kimbrel and depth behind him.
Weaknesses- Bench with only Eduardo Nunez with impact.
First base and possibly DH
Who they may want – Maybe Martinez or Voit to platoon with Moreland. Wacha, Reyes and Martinez but we would need a Benintendi in a deal for the latter two.
Who we would want – Benintendi would be a great #3 hitter. He and Devers (3b) have already been added and their minor system is a little thin. Bobby Dalbec (3b) a 2016 4th round choice is intriguing.

New York
Strengths – Bullpen with Chapman, Betances, Green and Robertson.
– Catcher, outfield although Gardner and Ellsbury at 33 winding down from peak performances. Can Judge continue to thrive. Advanced from #6 prospect to record HR’s for rookie in 2017.
Weaknesses – 1b with Carter (653 OPS) and Bird (.190) -.7 WAR between them. Either Carp, Martinez or Voit would be and improvement but the Yankees can afford to go for better options if available.
-Starting pitching. They have the bodies but several are injury prone. May have solved with the acquisition of Sonny Gray.
Who they may want – Possibly one of our first basemen if another option is not available. A starting pitcher among Reyes, Weaver, Martinez or Wacha. Again they may go for Lynn as free agent.
Who we would want – Other than Judge who is certianly untouchable, only Sanchez seems to be more than a role player and we already have a surplus. Didi is excellent but probably untouchable too. Shortstop Gleybor Torres is their #1 prospect and is progressing. He could be available for a price if they don’t move him to second or third base.

Tampa Bay
Strengths – Morrison a late bloomer at 1b, CF Kiermaier defense and Longoria.
– Young but still developing starting pitching staff-potential strength but not there yet. Colome two consecutive strong years in the pen.
Weaknesses – second base and DH (Duda not the answer). – Bullpen lacks depth and does bench. Team is similar to Cardinals with lots of pieces but few real impact performers. Only 3 players over .800 OPS among starters.None over .868. Will finish later with Baltimore and Toronto.

[Bw52]

nice Sooner.
Moreland is a FA this offseason.What about Bostons other top 3B prospect Michael Chavis who was in Double A ball this season?
Tampa Bay-Logan Morrison is a Free Agent this offseason also,same with Lucas Duda.

Keep up the good writing .

[gscottar]

Miami’s marketing department might want as many good Latin players as possible, especially Cuban players. We could offer them Diaz and Adolis Garcia plus some others for a quality piece.

[SoonerinNC]

Yes Chavis was #93 on Baseball America and selected the Red Sox offensive player of the year by the team. 31 home runs in 2017 so could be a possibility to switch to 1b. Probably at least a year away now.

Continuing AL East
Tampa Bay’s minor league system has 5 of the top 100 Baseball American mid season rankings. That squares with their pre-season of #11 of the 30 major league teams. Shortstop Willy Adames and rhp Brent Honeywell are ranked 13 and 14. Adames has a full season at AAA and he could be the answer to 2b for the Rays.
– Who they may want. If they intend for Adames to be their future shortstop the Rays could be interested in Wong and I suspect that they would be interested in a good starting pitcher. They may be a team that would have an interest in Grichuk with their shortage in power. Wilson Ramos had only a .1 WAR and their backup Sucre .4 so they may be very interested in Kelly.
– Who we may want – Certainly Adames with the thought of moving DeJong to 2b or 3b. He has had high strikeout numbers with modest power so I suspect we would deal using Wong if we could get another lower level prospect and I would not trade even up for Kelly as well. Longoria has always been on the list but is pricey and pretty well reached his peak.

Baltimore
Strengths – Some key parts in Machado, Jones, Shoop and Martini. Good potential young pitchers in Gausman and Bundy but drops off sharply from there. Castillo solid at c.
-Weakness – Holes in lineup. Aging and expensive Davis at 1b and Hardy probably done at ss. No closer with more than 18 saves and generally unimpressive pitching. Weak minor league system with only catcher Chance Sisco among BA’s top 100. Ranked #27 coming into season.
-Their interest – Pitchers, pitchers, pitchers and maybe an outfielder as a throwin.
-Our interest – Machado, Machado, Machado; Could possibly have for a couple of top pitching prospects. A potential beast. Wish he was under control longer. Would be great if we could get a contract extension with the trade.

Toronto
Strengths – Solid parts in injury prone Tulowitzki, Donaldson and good defensive center fielder in Pillar. Arguably #1 prospect in Guerrero Jr. Also possible good prospects in Bichette Jr. and Lourdes Gurriel, the Cuban who had an unimpressive year.
Weaknesses – Age; combined with a major drop in performance in 17. 11 of the 13 starting position players and top 4 pitchers are age 30 or older. After 2 strong years closer Roberto Osuna had a significant drop off, always a bad thing in closers.
– Their interest – Probably any of our top pitching and outfield prospects. Also Kelly. Even though Russell Martin is signed until 2020 he is 34 and had a poor 2017. Since we have an interest in Donaldson they probably will try to sell high.
– Our interest – I am lukewarm on Donaldson but would probably rather have him than Longoria. We have the pieces to land him and it is probably a matter of reaching a reasonable agreement. I think Mo is always ready to walk away. Would love to have Guerrero Jr. He not only seems to have the high ceiling but is performing at that level so far. It is not unprecedented for a #1 prospect to be traded (Moncada
from Red Sox to White Sox last year, particularly from a team in distress. Don’t know if we would give up the established players required for a long term bet.

Will look at AL Central in a few days.

[thejager]

to add:

what about Archer from the Rays as a target? and as a valuable piece in general
what about Britton from Baltimore?

both seem to be pieces that could be had in deal and both are at spots we should be looking into

Britton would be the type of non sign for big money closer deal that the FO doesnt seem to like…not saying we go that route as i believe nicasio and the new guy from JApan seem to be our path of least resistance and value

Now an Archer deal would greatly make up for missing out on Quintana and Gray (both whom we were shown to have interest in…and both of them obviously because of their long term control and top of rotation stuff)…i can’t imagine we were looking in their direction if we werent interested in a similar piece and Archer is probably the best the three in performance and value (signed through 2012 at 11mil last year)

to me a trade for Archer would be worth all the prospects it would take and make up for not re-signing Lynn AND bringing in a solid upper rotation guy to replace Waino long term while giving the remaining kids a chance to figure it out without having to lean on them…it also allows us to trade a few more good SP players in other potential deals as we would have one less spot for the rotation and thus one less need for a young SP

2018 Cmart Archer Wacha Weaver Waino …is pretty good especially with Reyes waiting
(as i believe Weaver and Reyes are the only untouchables…though i have started to reconsider lately)
2019 CMart Archer Wacha Weaver Reyes …is crazy good, young and relatively cheap

i brought up an Archer Longoria trade idea before…and while i agree Longoria has peaked, he is still a dependable middle order bat…the type of bat we are missing AND the type of bat that would pair wonderfully with a Stanton or JD MArtinez or guy we bring in mostly for money

Archer and Longoria
for
Kelly + Gyorko + Piscotty + Hudson + JFernandez

Stanton + Gordon (they eat a bit of Stanton’s salary but we take on Gordon)
for
Flaherty + Wong + Grichuk + Sierra + Gant + Machado or Arozarena

sign Nicasio and Nishiona(sp?)
sign backup catcher like Hanigan, Avila, or Lobaton

rotation:
Archer, Cmart, Weaver, Wacha, Waino (Reyes)
Nicasio, Nishiona, Cecil, Brebbia, Lyons, Bowman, Tuivalala
lineup:
Gordon, Carp, Longoria, Stanton, Fowler, Pham, Yadi, DeJong
Hanigan, Diaz, Garcia, JMart, Bader

thinking out loud again…. but that lineup is stacked and that rotation looks very good
Longoria and Gordon are a bit older…but we wanted some veterans…and they are still good and do things we can use…Stanton mashes until at least 2020….and ARcher is what we would HOPE any of our young SPs become…we’d still have ONeill and JAGarcia, BAder, and Knizner, and Wisdom and voit, and Perez and MErcado and Sosa…..still have Alcantara, Helsely Gomber, Hicks, Poncedleon, Woodford, Ellis, and more for pitching….

[Onyxgem]

Sooner, I am curious who are we trading that we would have interest from those teams?

[thejager]

Onyx…he lists “their interests” on each one…some specific some not

[gscottar]

I have also advocated for an Archer trade before. If we don’t get him the Cubs will, mark my words.

[thejager]

agreed GScott….and his contract being so affordable i would overpay on our end just to keep him from the Cubs in fact…if you add a cheap rotation to the cubs they will be able to overpay on any and all available superstars, as their young cheap hitters are all cheap for many years…

I dont think anyone in the central could survive and contend with Archer being added to the Cubs…

i know Schwarber for Archer would seem good to the Rays but id hope they woudlnt fall for it…we coudl offer much better

[SoonerinNC]

I will try to be clearer on players we have that could be of interest to other teams.
Also somehow I missed that if we don’t sign Nicasio, Betances of the Yankees could be a nice pickup. He has closer stuff but is blocked by Chapman and New York has a lot of relief pitching depth.

[gscottar]

Why not go for Nicasio and Betances? That would be a good 1-2 punch.

As for Archer, I’m convinced the Cubs will go after him because they are losing Arrieta and Lackey. They could go big and offer Schwarber and Russell or Happ for Archer and Colome. Would the Rays want more? I don’t know but if the Cubs start dangling players like that then the only way we could match the offer would be to offer Reyes and I wouldn’t want to do that.

[thejager]

GScott…i am there with you…

though i might offer Reyes for Archer straight up

Reyes looked good early, but had control issues, then he gets hurt…i cant imagine he will be the best version of himself until at least 2019..maybe later if he has to relearn his control

Archer is signed through 2012 maxing out at 11mil (6.5. 7.5, 9, 11) for his 29, 30, 31, 32 years in age…

he has already shown he can be #1 and push for Cy Young votes…we’d get him for his prime pitching years and never have to pay big money…

Reyes, COULD be top of rotation, but it still remains to be seen….i’d do Reyes for Archer straight up if they wanted it….even if i dont really want to lose Reyes…

I think we could compete with a Schwarber + Happ deal…I dont think they deal Russell or Happ really…but i think we coudl compete with those guys…it’s not like either of them or even all 3 were worth the potential and cost saving that Reyes could come should he blossom…

i still think we have the amount of prospects other teams want…also we have guys at the right ages…not too old and not too young…

but to each his/her own..

im still thinking on my trade i proposed earlier…and how much i like it…Archer, Longoria, and Stanton and Gordon… it woudl be bold but i believe itwoudl be doable…and totally show our fans and the MLB that we are not going to let the Cubs have the Central until 2020’s when they have to actually start paying their spoils of tanking

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I love Matt Carp, but I feel he’s clogging a lot of things up. Sadly, Fowler isn’t going anywhere, he’s either in CF or LF on opening day and likely atop the lineup or close to it. Also, with the extreme lack of any middle of the order hitters at all, literally ZERO, a corner OF spot, 3B and 1B are going to be the easiest to fill.

So of course I’ll make my suggestions, and trying to be realistic in my old age……

1) Get as much trade value as possible, and as soon as possible, out of Carpenter, Pham, and Grichuk for the best prospects/young players available and focus only on getting the most value, regardless of position, level, etc unless it’s a Grichuk for great reliever type of deal (once again, they are stuck with Fowler).

That would clear three 40 man spots which are becoming increasingly high in demand. Also, this sheds Carps $13.75M off the books for next year.

2) Use the return from Carp to trade along with Wong, Sandy A. and Jordan Hicks to Miami for Ozuna and Gordon (Cards take on all of the salary to give lesser prospects back).

3) Use the return from Pham (or trade him there) along with Alex Reyes (yes, I said it) and Sierra for Chris Archer

4) With the new TV deal, butts in the seats, the revenue from BP village, etc. if payroll isn’t over $175M after two awful seasons, I would be a very upset Cardinals fan, as will most be if they are fluent in Revenue + growing net worth – Expenses – Taxes – Interest = A BOAT LOAD OF PROFIT

5) Sign JD Martinez or J Upton for around 5/6-110/125M (20-23M/yr)

6) Sign 2 rehab project starters for innings

7) Sign 2 rehab project relievers

8) Resign Nicasio

9) Resign Duke

Gordon
Fowler
Ozuna
Martinez/JUpton
Piscotty/Jose Martinez (1B)
DeJong
Gyorko
Yadi
(3rd place hitter magically slides to 6th with decent hitters)

Archer
Cmart
Weaver
Wacha
Waino/Lyons, etc

BP is still Nicosio Duke Cecil Tui Brebbia Lyons, etc…. BP’s are fluid, I agree with Mo on that

[CariocaCardinal]

So you are going to trade Carp, Wong, Reyes, Pham, Sierra, Hicks, Alcantra, and Grichuk and all you are going to get back is Ozuna and Archer? (Gordon you aren’t really paying for – just agreeing to take on his contract). I think I’ll stick with Mo or Grish as my GM.

[Onyxgem]

Yeah no way would i make that Archer trade or the MIA trade both are bad

[CardsFanInChiTown]

And prospects who don’t have to be on the 40 man.

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