- This topic has 2,871 replies, 53 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I have never heard of a player agreeing to terms as part of a trade agreement, either. But that’s not to say it couldn’t happen. Most of the big spenders already have an expensive third baseman, and the Yankees have Gleyber Torres. IMO, right now it looks like the Angels (if they don’t sign Moustakas) and the Rangers are the only big spenders that will be looking for a third baseman. And if the Cardinals don’t sign Donaldson, he will be in the free agent market at the same time as Machado. So if the Cardinals would offer Machado, say, 10yrs./$250M, he would be taking a big gamble if he flat out rejected it. A trade for Machado seems very improbable. But its still a possibility, at least until its not.
I must admit CariocaCards and others do bring up several good valid reasons why Miami might not trade Ozuna.Stanton is out of Cards comfort zone money-wise IMHO.Yelich is a fine player but he is NOT the MOTOB the Cards need.It might just come down to signing a Free Agent.I just don`t see giving Hosmer 20 mill a year.JD Martinez will get close to that.Moustakas could be in play but at what cost? 15 million a year or more?IMHO after MO and the FO strikeout on several trade options the team signs a Todd Frazier for 3B a a bit lower price because of him having a poor season.T. Frazier could be a FO facesaver for this offseason and then the FO can say we will go all in on the 2018 FA class which is supposed to be huge.
I’m all in on JD Martinez at $20 million a year.
Declining defense but he can move to first at the end of Carp’s contract.
Puig might be another possiblity. At one time I’m sure the Dodgers would gladly have dealt him. Not sure about now. He has a pretty good year, at least on the field.
Our biggest problem is that we don’t have a real stud of a player in the minors at any position outside of pitchers that we’d just need a bridge player to hold down the fort till then…some in the minors might become that but Donaldson and Martinez are to old, cost to much, and would only be here for a short time…I’d rather trade for a great player in his 20’s like Stanton or Trout…and weren’t we going to pay Pujols like 20 something million…
“CC
Do you really think MO and company would be willing to go 20 million a year ?”Yes, I just don’t know if it will be enough.
I have struggled to see how the Cardinals address their gaps. I agree the club needs at least one, if not two, big bats in the middle of the line up. The “pen” needs to be reworked. I agree that most of the names mentioned could really help the club. The question is how does the front office get this done?
If the front office follows their traditional approach the Cardinals will:
1) Look for a “Beltran” type free agent(s) to add some punch to their line up. They may pursue a high profile free agent, but their track record has not been great landing such players. This has worked to managements’ advantage the past few seasons as most of the high profile players they pursued have struggled since (e.g Heyward, Price).
My concern with some of the names mentioned is not the annual salary, it will be the length of the contract.
The club got a great two year deal with Beltran. We will have to see how the free agent market develops. I am not too optimistic.2) Pursue a trade for a “Beltran” type player. I am not sure the organization has enough talent on the ML roster to obtain some of the younger players mentioned. There may be some position players in the minors that may draw some interest, but I suspect clubs will want more than one of the young pitching prospects. Will the front office really be willing to ship off young, promising and controllable pitchers?
I suspect the front office will need to pursue the not-so-obvious players to fill the gaps. This can be successful, but until it proves out there may be unrest within the fan base.
This team needs to get younger… not older, and the FO should realize that. So adding Social Security types should be avoided. We have some good position prospects and I’d like to see what they can do in the next couple of seasons. AND we have certified pitching prospects for the next four seasons… after that it might get sketchy.
The Cubs aren’t going away and the Brew Crew is on the rise. We should try to be formidable when they fade away… and hope that the Buccos and Reds don’t pass us by. Keepin’ it real.
I get your aversion to “Social Security types”, but I am far less sure about getting the roster younger. Perhaps it goes back to what you feel the needs are and how they should be addressed.
For this discussion, let’s say these are the needs.
Big bat – This player would likely replace Grichuk/Piscotty, or Gyorko, all of whom are in their 20s. Conclusion: older.
Closer – This addition would likely be older than Rosenthal but younger than Oh. Conclusion: wash.
Veteran starter – As a transition player on a shorter contract, this pitcher will likely be older than Leake. Conclusion: older.
Four years is a lot. Our system is good enough that if you count kelly and weaver… We should have roughly fifteen to twenty young and cheap players hit our roster in the next two years.
Given that 2.5 per year is considered good… Well… We need to realize we have done well on that front and take advantage.
BW… IMO finding a big bat OR two could be done by exploring the very top of other teams prospects with an eye on ’20. We simply don’t have anything in the farm system that can provide power. Finding a MLB player that has power is another option as long as long as he is young. I haven’t given up on Piscotty and choose to eliminate ’17 from his resume due to many factors that should be rectified in ’18. Grichuk has tremendous power but his weaknesses might cave his career. Gyorko is that sort of player that you just ask so much from and then get a lot more than you bargained for.
Why do we need a veteran starter? Isn’t Wainwright that guy? Martinez and Wacha have put in time also. I’d go with Weaver and Flaherty and let them get some solid MLB experience. Hudson should see some action also. That’s excitement for me, seeing the younger guys come up and succeed. The ’17 Cards are a dull team with only the rookies picking up some enthusiasm and hope for better days. But that could just be me.
Conclusion: shoot for 2020.
ps…. I’ll leave the bullpen problems for wiser fans than me.OK, Nyquist, as I suspected, we see the need differently. I want to see the Cards get immediate offensive help from the outside, not shoot for 2020.
As an aside, I am personally not hard over on getting a veteran starter, but some are concerned about the young pitchers being able to pick up all the innings vacated by Lynn, Leake and possibly, Wainwright. I get where they are coming from, but maybe with enough of the youngsters, they can patch together the needed innings. Otherwise, the bullpen is run ragged if the starters can’t go more than five.
Throwing reyes and say… gomber, helsley or pearce in long relief and would mitigate that worry about young arms and innings lot.
We have the arms to make it work. It will be a constant work in progress… But it is doable.
Fair point, Brian, but I am among those who think some of that young pitching may have to be traded to meet the other needs – unless the Cards really are building for 2020 instead of 2018.
I do too… But last I checked both aa and aaa teams have a ton of arms and it isnt exactly a stretch to pull a kid from aa to the bullpen the next year.
We can make it work even with some deals. I agree some of the arms should be gone after this winter but I am in wait and see mode a bit… have to see what happens.
They should just re-sign Lynn and worry about fitting the young guys in later. Weaver has come up pretty lame here these last two starts and Flaherty was struggling too.
I’m good with resigning lynn but we should be fine regardless. I’d rather sign hosmer and go with what we have pitching-wise personally if it is a choice… But who knows it might not be.
Weaver having a couple bad starts doesnt bother me so much. 3.88 era and 1.26 whip is nothing to sneeze at. And you had to expect a learning curve for flaherty. He came a long way this year.
Now… How patient I will be next year is an open question but for now I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If weaver put up those numbers for a year I think I’d be fine with them. I’d hope for better but that’s leake numbers give or take.
I still stand by the idea that having reyes and one more of our aa and aaa starters in long relief will solidify any rotation inning issues we might have. For now anyway… That assumes they give us decent to good innings. I think it is doable with the multitude of arms available.
The reason the Cubs are so young is because they did a complete tear down and tanked. That is not going to happen here nor should it. There is nothing wrong with us adding a veteran bat with some pop on a reasonably short term deal. It has worked for us in the past with Berkman and Beltran. Our core would still be young buy by adding a veteran bat we wouldn’t have the albatross long contract that would come with someone like Stanton.
The two veterans that come to mind for me are Carlos Gonzales and Jay Bruce. It we added one of those guys along with Donaldson our lineup would look much more dangerous next year and it wouldn’t break the bank.
I have started to put together a comprehensive trade possibility list that I will post in 7 parts because of the load of information. I will begin with my estimate of needs and then an analysis of possibilities in each division consisting of other teams needs and what players I would like at the major or minor league levels. While I agree with Brian that I want immediate needs filled if that is not possible we should use our surplus to grab a top minor league prospect like young Guerrero of the Blue Jays.
We have a ton of average major league players both pitching and position players. Hard to evaluate some of the pitchers because they were pitching in intense pressure most of the season. We have scored 3 runs or less in a game 65 times this year. Pitching in tight situations wears a pitcher down so maybe the late season melt downs by some are due to fatigue. Same goes for the bullpen to a lesser extent.
From our regular position players I would want to retain Yadi, DeJong and possibly Pham. Wong would be a longer shot but he is still pretty inconsistent and messes up a lot of routine plays in the field. Yadi seems to have lost a little mobility and not quite as good blocking pitches as before but he is hitting as well as ever, a great handler of pitchers and still has a good arm. Many want to compare DeJong with Diaz but I see DeJong doing a better job of adjusting. Diaz went from lunging to much to constantly lunging and getting out front with wild swings out of the zone. I still think he has good upside if he gets his act together and would hang on to him. DeJong on the other hand has hit 38 home runs this season with the 13 he hit at Memphis. He is at least an average major league shortstop which Diaz is not. He would also fill in nicely at second or third base. I think Diaz will ultimately end up as a corner infielder or outfielder if he stays in the major leagues. Pham is a late bloomer and those guys are usually early faders al la Allen Craig. Pham’s lateness in becoming a regular is clearly as result of injuries but that is also a danger in the future. He may have maximum trade value at this time.
Of the other regular position players Grichuk has the highest upside and probably decent trade value to a team who thinks they can do a better job than the Cardinals at realizing that upside. Martinez had DH written all over him but he would be adequate at first base in the short term. He is also probably at maximum trade value. I can live with Fowler in left field but not center. Gyorko can not get to 500 AB’s in a season and so is an ideal utility player. Also probably at peak trade value. I like a lot about Carp but I think fading and at max trade value. Fans too much in key situations.
Hard to evaluate the pitchers. Consensus seems to be that Alex Reyes and Martinez are the untouchables. Wacha and Martinez are overpowering at times but often melt down when they get into a tight situation. Lynn is probably gone. Weaver and Flaherty are definite keepers. Waino with serious questions. I could part with anyone in the bullpen except for Tuivalala who is gradually gaining traction, Brebbia who has been on the cusp of dominance but doesn’t get there all of the time. But I can see him becoming at least a good 7th or 8th inning set up guy. If we don’t resign Nicasio or pick up a closer you could see Alcantara as our closer next year. He got off to a bad start at Springfield but had 5 or 6 consecutive quality starts when they moved him to the pen.
On the minor league front the major strengths are starting pitching and outfield. Weaver, Flaherty may have seen their last minor league assignment. Right behind them are Hudson, Gallen, Helsley and Hicks. Then the soft tossers Pearce, Gomber and O’Reilly. Woodford, Poncedeleon and Jones possibilities. Ponce will have to handle the mental part of dealing with possible line drives at his head. The Cleveland Indians had a young pitcher. Herb Score in the 50’s (20 game winner at age 23) who had a similar injury and he was never the same after recovery.
Our highes cieling outfielders are O’Neill, Adolis Garcia and Sierra. Right behind are Bader, Arozarena and Mercado with Machado and Carlson longer term possibilities. Garcia is probably the most underrated player in our system, not even making the MLB top 30.
I’m not as high on our middle infielders as most and probably see catching as the next best. Kelly will probably be a major league regular but is out of sync with Yadi timewise. Knizer looks to be a very good prospect and possibly will hit better than Kelly. I have also not given up on Jeremy Martinez who never got it going offensively at Palm Beach but hit very well in the PCL playoffs and put a pretty good minor league catcher, Gabriel Lino on the bench for the entire playoff run.
Sorry about the length and some guys not addressed like Piscotty. Will post my analysis of the AL East in the next day or two.
Brianpnoonan
Weaver having a couple bad starts doesnt bother me so much. 3.88 era and 1.26 whip is nothing to sneeze at. And you had to expect a learning curve for flaherty. He came a long way this year.
Now… How patient I will be next year is an open question but for now I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If weaver put up those numbers for a year I think I’d be fine with them. I’d hope for better but that’s leake numbers give or take.
Weaver pitched 124 innings in 2015, then pitched 119 in 2016, and made it through 138 innings this year. I don’t know how reliably we can count on him for a full season, especially since his durability has always been a little bit of risk.
i love great trade discussions! should be fun to read Sooner
how about this:
-trade for Stanton (we take on a major part of the salary so we dont have to give up too much prospect wise, maybe Grichuk + young arm (Flaherty? Gomber?)+ young middle infielder Sosa?)
-trade for Archer (use Kelly and a good SP Hudson? and an outfielder Piscotty?)
-sign Hosmer 100mil+
-sign Nicasio
-sign Duke (i like him but i coudl understand if we wouldnt do it)
-sign vet backup catcher (Hanigan?)
-trade Greg Garcia or Diaz (i pick Garcia as Diaz i think is a slightly better SS than Garcia IMO)
-trade Gyorko (value is high)
-trade Voit (still has good enough value i’d have to think)
-check in for anyone interested in Fowler, if someone bites who might eat most of the salary for a lesser prospect then go for it, but if he stays so be itthat adds a lot of payroll, but frees up a little bit and is mitigated by departure of Waino
Cmart, Archer, Wacha, Weaver, Waino/Reyes
Nicasio, Duke, Brebbia, Cecil, Tuivalala, Bowman, Lyons
Carp(3b),Pham(Cf),Hosmer(1b),Stanton(RF),Fowler(LF),DeJong(SS),Yadi(C),Wong(2b)
Hanigan,Diaz,JMart,Bader,Wisdom/ValeraI know people dont like Carp at 3rd…i get it…but he is capable, plus with Diaz on the bench and maybe Wisdom we would be fine
that team addresses all our major concerns and upgrades us across the board…the very back end is still a question mark but i think they like what they have seen with Nicasio…plus Reyes coudl always factor in in the pen too…i just dont see us spending huge money on a closer when we need to spend money on batsThinking out loud is all…just where my thoughts are at at the moment
I just saw Sooner’s post and want to underline one point he made. I have thought long and hard about how to quantify this, but have not been able to crack it yet.
The assertion is that some of the bullpen problems were brought on by the offense not getting leads. The pen has to come in with little margin for error and in the back of their minds is the feeling that the offense may not add on. Not mentioned by Sooner, but perhaps because the games are close, the manager felt more pressure to call on his more dependable guys – over and over.
Again, no proof, but I have wondered for a long time if there might be something there.
- The topic ‘Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018’ is closed to new replies.