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Lynn shows up every fifth day and almost always pitches well enough to keep us in the game. It gets pretty messy when you have a pitcher who can’t even give you three innings like Flaherty did last night because then the manager has to send a succession of one or two inning pitchers out there to finish a game that’s already been trashed. That’s what the Reds have been having to put up with all year. I think signing Lynn depends on his price. If the bidding runs up to $100M or more, maybe we should take our chances without him. But if he will sign for a price that makes sense, then bring him back. I think Flaherty will be part of a trade package during the offseason. So if Wainwright can’t be in the rotation and if Lynn is gone, there isn’t a lot of depth that is ready, although I would like to see Lyons stretched out as a starter. I’m expecting that whatever is wrong with Cecil will get fixed during the offseason.
Moustakas is not a second-tier free agent. The guy has 38 home runs. According to a recent ranking on MLB.com, he is the 3rd-ranked free agent this winter after Darvish and Arrieta and the top hitter on the market. In my book, Hosmer and Martinez are also up there, but third base is a more important position defensively than 1B or corner OF.
https://m.mlb.com/news/article/250373002/top-10-mlb-free-agents-for-2017-18-offseason/
If we don’t sign a veteran innings eater or don’t sign Lynn then we should try to bundle our surplus talent and go after someone like Chris Archer. Or even do a blockbuster and try to get Archer AND Colome. If we could pull that off then we just need to acquire a big bat and and the offseason would be done.
If we don’t go after Archer then I bet the Cubs will. I could see a Schwarber for Archer deal happening.
i think that makes sense Gscott
why not add in longoria to the deal?
It’d be the picture of a blockbuster, but it would basically fill all our needs
Archer + Colome + Longoria
for
????…but it would be a lotor even going after just Archer and Longoria
I know Longoria is on the wrong side of 30 but he has always been a solid player…he might not be the perfect middle order hitter, but i’d definitely be interested
or JUST Archer i’d be fine with…
I know they have Wilson Ramos, but would Kelly interest them? And if so could we offer Knizner instead?
who is really hurting for a catcher? and has a starting pitcher or power hitter we’d really want?
I”m not saying deal Knizner or Kelly BUT…if we can find someone desperate or very interested in our catchers then the already high trade value of Kelly would go even higher…at some point the value we could get would outweigh the future i’d think
I think Moustakas is second tier in that he will likely get a deal similar to Leake or Fowler. Not the top-of-the-line guys.
Arrieta, Hosmer, Cain, Upton, Tanaka, Darvish, Lynn, and Martinez will all get more than Moustakas imo.
He may have to “settle” for a Josh Reddick-like deal.
Josh Donaldson is another name that has been discussed here off an on. Here is a tweet from Toronto’s MLB beat reporter.
Donaldson with yet another home run. He has 23 homers since the All-Star Break, which leads the Majors. 6th multi-homer game of season.
https://twitter.com/gregorMLB/status/912828013984788480
As a reminder, the Cards have only one player with more home runs for the entire season, and he has just 24.
Well blockbusters aren’t usually in our playbook but I would hope that even our front office is tired of getting sand kicked in their faces by the Cubs. I know the fans are. Three straight years is enough.
As for Longoria, he certainly has the splashy name but would he really be that much of an upgrade over Gyroko? Compare their numbers this year.
As for Donaldson, I would love to have him but he is only under team control for one more year so that would be a concern.
On longoria vs gyork
I get the thought however I’d say we need a middle order hitter not. Cause we need 40hrs but because we need a dependable solid player who has some fear that comes from himI’d prefer a younger version of Longoria but I like Longoria’s consistency over time. Gyorko has been pretty streaky ever since he came up in SD
The one year of Donaldson is concerning IMO. Earlier this year. Sure. Now. Eh I dunno not sure how much I’d give up for a 1yr rental
Just my opinion but these are guys who I think could be in play as trade targets for the Cards
Manuel Ozuna OF Miami-makes 3.5 mill this season and is arb eligible again. Having a big season 36 HRs 118 RBI .305 BA .371 OBP .542 slg.will get big raise in arbitration.Free agent after 2019 seasonJose Abreu 1B White Sox 31 next season.makes 11.5 mill in 2018,makes 12.0 mill in 2019.
33 HRs 102 RBI .307 BA
.358 OBP. .561 slg.
WSox in major rebuild.A package of young players might work for WSoxBrian Dozier 2B-3B Twins.makes 9.0 Million in 2018.FA after 2018 season30 years old.33 HRs 90 RBI .264 BA
OBP .351. Slg .486Players who could be possible targets for trade but I doubt Cards do businesAdam Jones OF Baltimore 32
2018 salary 17.0 million
Mark Trumbo OF Baltimore 32 next season 2018 salary 12.5 2019 salary 13.5Brandon Belt SF not a real MOTO bat who will get 16.0 million a year thru 2021.
Stanton- who wouldn’t like to see him in STLouis? No way MO and DeWitt take on that contract UNLESS Cards shed a bunch of payroll first
Donaldsen-ithink he stays in Toronto for a few more years
Yelich-fairly cheap till 2020 so I think he stays in Miami.
Justin Upton- he would be crazy to opt out of his 22.2 million dollar deal since its good until 2021.
Just some thoughts on possible trade targets.What say you guys?I think they ought to sign Duke if they can get him for 2 years. I don’t think that Sherriff is going to be much help. Cecil is an unknown although I think he can be fixed, or fix himself, during the offseason. It has been shocking to see how poorly he has performed so often this year. Doesn’t make sense.
Here’s a suggestion. Nothing more than that.
Carpenter, Fowler, and Gyorko to the Orioles for Machado. But Machado has to agree to terms first.
I would do that deal in a heartbeat if Machado would agree to an extension. The problem is that it is very difficult to do deals with the Orioles. They have one of the flakiest owners out there. They are extremely unpredictable and unreliable. Ask the Astros. They got abused by the Orioles at the trade deadline with the potential Britton deal.
Ozuna – the price tag would be huge. Why would Miami want to trade cost controlled talent?
Abreu would make sense except he was supposedly one of the big influencers of Robert signing there and a mentor for Moncada. Also would then have to deal with what to do with Carpenter.
Dozier – Twins made the playoffs, I doubt they break up the team after this year.
Donaldson – if he doesn’t agree to an extension I can see him being shopped. How much do you pay for a rental?
I can definitely see Adam Jones as being available if he doesn’t sign an extension. Not sure he is a good fit for us. Old, declining offense, declining defense wont be far behind. Here is an idea. Fowler for Jones straight up. The O’s get a locked up player and the Cards get a one year rental and then out from under a high cost contract that they have the prospects to replace. Interesting to think about. You have to be convinced Fowler’s defense won’t improve bacause his offense has been steller and worth every bit of his contract.
Machado – why would they trade him if he is willing to sign an extension?
The main reason any player might agree to an extension with new team B vs. current team A would be if team B offers way more in money/years than team A wants to spend.
Having said that, does anyone recall an example of this kind of trade with an extension signed immediately after?
Didn’t Mark McGwire, Jim Edmonds, Matt Holliday, Scott Rolen, Edgar Renteria, Darryl Kyle, Woody Williams, Larry Walker etc. Wasn’t it always the case that as soon as they got that ‘Birds on the Bat’ jersey on, they fell in love with it?
I love, love, love Josh Donaldson’s game. His acting, well that’s a different story. However, he’s a very intelligent player on both offence and defense. He’s a winner because of the effort he puts forward. I don’t think he’ll sign an extension in Toronto due to the fact he knows uber-prospect Vlad Guerrero Jr. will be ready in 2019. I do believe he would sign a long-term (I wouldn’t do more then 5 years because of his age and how hard he plays) deal with us if we trade for him.
The Blue Jays are old and need an influx in talent, especially the outfield and starting pitching. I trade them Jedd Gyorko and his power replacement for Josh, along with Jack Flaherty and Jose Adolis Garcia.
Wiley, those situations you cited were different than the conditions we were discussing. To the best of my knowledge, none of the players you mention signed an extension with the Cardinals as part of the original trade to join the team. Instead, the Cards acquired them with no assurance they would stay.
Some of the old allure of players on other teams wanting to be a Cardinal seems to have eroded over the years.
In fact, the most recent example of attempting a trade for a rental player, one that went the other way, was Jason Heyward.
To the original point, I seriously doubt why any top player would give up his free agent leverage to agree to a long-term contract with a new team he has never played with – as a part of a trade. The money and years would have to be stupidly aggressive – and we all know the Cards don’t do that.
One thing to consider when discussing dealing Fowler or Carp is that they can bat LH. If we trade them for RH hitters our only regular LH bat would be Wong, assuming that Sierra doesn’t play much. Do we really want a RH dominated lineup? I think we need balance.
Most of the potential big bats we have discussed are RH: Stanton, Ozuna, JD Martinez, Donaldson, Frazier.
Some of the LH options would be Hosmer, Moustakas, and Yelich but I don’t know realistic they are.Anyway, something to consider.
CC…i like the idea of Fowler for Jones straight up… that is a pretty clever idea…both sides are risking a bit, but getting good potential rewards back
doubt it happens but that is a pretty intriguing type of trade
One thing I hadn’t considered is that Jones is a 10/5 player now, so he (like Fowler) basically has a no trade clause. Jones may be pretty entrenched in Baltimore since he has been there nearly his entire career.
Another potential issue is that Fowler may still be negative about Baltimore as they reportedly leaked info that he agreed to terms with them two winters ago, when he said he had not. His agent made very strong comments about the Orioles being “reprehensible” at the time. It was pretty ugly. Fowler then went back to the Cubs for one more year.
Given that, I can’t see why he would give up his no-trade protection to play there.
i agree on all accounts…. that doesnt still make it intriguing…
i think a lot of people didnt think Leake would waive his no trade either, but he did….
I dont necessarily think it is a perfect fit for us or them, but just think that kind of thinking when it comes to trades is good…
trying to find a match for Fowler is an interesting idea in and of itself…i’m not against keeping him and think he had a pretty good year outside the injuries…id prefer if he moved to the corners but he isnt terrible…
however if we could find a deal that he was happy with and woudl help us i dont see why not thinking about it
someone else brought up the Mets at some point…they’d let him play Cf with Conforto and Cespedes at the corners…but i dont know if he’d want to go to that team that has a lot of question marks in it… and what would be coming back in a deal like that?….
where else could Fowler fit?
also…we’ve talked ad nauseum about the obvious trade targets
who are some others that we could discuss that might be available that coudl fit our big bat beeds? jones is definitely someone i dont think many have talked about…and even with the roadblocks that doesnt cancel anything out but off the top of my head…
Jones
Cespedes maybe? maybe he wants to get out…do we want him anyways?
Upton?
Myers
Lamb
Freemanjust some ideas…i could see scenarios for lots of types of additions…
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