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How can a hip injury be a killer if the player is not only back, but catching in the major leagues? Don’t get me wrong, I think Kelly is a fine prospect, but I can also accept that others who have greater familiarity with Mejia consider him a better prospect at this point. To assert otherwise without any supporting data beyond one’s opinion suggests a bias.
the Reds have Barnhadt and love him…he is a gutsy player who isa top notch defender AND has a decent enough stick… also they still have MEsoraco on a contract no one else will take if he isnt healthy so they are basically locked into hoping for the best with Mesoraco and being happy with Barnhardt the whole time…plus they rule V’d that Stuart Turner kid and kept him up the whole year….
i just dont see the Reds needing a catcher…or if so not being willing to give up what we shodul be asking for a return in Kelly…
Mejia’s stick looks strong…his defense is getting better….he is up right now to pinch hit…
personally i like a bit more size on my catchers for the long seasons, and Kelly fits that better IMO…and i think Kelly projects well…i dunno…I have no problem in rankings picking Meija over Kelly…and Kelly is right there with him…
we may be bias a bit..but Kelly is no Bryan Anderson…Kelly definitely is a high overall prospect at his position…offensively and defensively… we may not get to see it for a while if he doesnt get traded but he is definitely going to play at the MLB level…will it be for us will it be for someone else….will he last very long anyways? I dunno… but he will get a legitimate shot
Reds just gave Barnhart a four-year contract extension with a 2022 option.
This is corrected. I initially typed Mesoraco instead. Sorry about that.
Speaking of, Mesoraco will make $13 MM in his final season of his current deal in 2018.
Bottom line, it reinforces jager’s earlier point that the Reds do not seem like a fit for Carson Kelly.
Molina offered Tucker Barnhart some tips and offers praise for the young Reds catcher.
Are the Reds going to up payroll above $100 million? If not, they will have 32% dead weight in Merasco and Bailey. Of the $68 million left, about 35% is tied up in Votto alone. That is Below recent Marlins and A’s territory.
When Pham and Fowler stole third and second last night, Barnhardt bounced the ball down the third base line apparently in an attempt to catch Pham stealing third. Obviously, the Reds don’t have much confidence in him since they extended Mesoraco. I don’t think the Reds are going anywhere with the pitching staff they have and with Mesoraco behind the plate for the next five years. But who knows?
My next best guess is that Kelly winds up with Toronto in a trade for Donaldson. Donaldson will be 32 in December. If that doesn’t happen, then maybe nothing will happen for third base over during the offseason. They will probably at least kick the tires on Machado, but there’s zero chance that they will give him $400M.
mud
Barnhart signed the extension NOt mesoraco. Who only has one year remaining. So that whole paragraph is off base. PLUS one bad thro is a Terrible means to evaulate IMO. And go look at his defensive WAR. I believe he had the highest or second highest defensive WAR this year. Barnhart has been VERY good.
As for that trade. It would seem like a classic overpay. And one I’d hate to see and hope doesn’t happen. Now if the deal would have been in May this year and we could have gotten Ozuna too maybe adding a lower level Ofer. Now that I would have understood and maybe got behind. Though it still feels light for Kelly. But at least it would have helped THIS year and next and addressed 2 big concerns for this year and next.
Since Molina is giving out praise to opposition players, what does he have to say about our own Kelly? I don’t think Molina even talks to Kelly. If Carson has to sit on the bench for three years listening to Yadi tell other catchers how great they are, the Cards should deal Kelly ASAP. Molina might just devalue him.
While I agree with that in general I would rather see the organization give molina a “come to jesus” moment where they sit down and give him the facts of life.
You are our present. Kelly is our future. 60 games per year is what he will be starting. take your sixty million in severance pay and deal with it.
And while I am thinking about it fire matheny if he isnt standing there lock step and especially if he doesnt follow through during the year.
Ideally that is what SHOULD happen. Because there is zero way (imo) that molina doesnt get injured for a significant period of time for the next three years even if they do cut his time down (much less if they don’t). Kelly needs to be kept if at all possible just for that reason.
You don’t trade a guy who compares relatively favorably to buster posey.
I really with the FO would get things straight with Molina and playing time with Kelly.I say a rested Molina is a good thing for the Cards plus it gives Kelly valuable experience and lets Kelly further his development.There are some who think Molina will stay at a high level and think he should play every day while saying they see no decline in his skills.I disagree and say he has lost mobility and agility behind the plate.He has had a good year offensively mostly and he is the teams leading hitter RISP .315.As for RISP/2 out he is .221 which ranks 7th among Cards regulars. His CS number are 34 % about average for the league.Kelly is a valuable asset who should be kept because father time could be kinocking on Yadi`s door next season.You never know.
Noon…I get what you are saying about Kelly’s prospects as a MLB catcher. He just needs to be one somewhere.. and it ain’t gonna be here. It’s a shame for him to lose three years of his career in St. Louis just listening to the walk-up tunes and practicing high-fiveing teammates.
It seems that Yadi wants a so-so backup… maybe Rosario, an aging guy with little chance of being a regular anywhere. Someone who already has ass callouses and won’t have fans teeming to see him play more.
I have a feeling that Molina doesn’t think that he’s only going to be playing for three more years. That’s why he doesn’t like Kelly breathing down his neck.
Not that it matters that much to most people, but I, for one, am sick of hearing about rest for players. This is a myth started by Matheny. Resting position players should not be the focal point of a manager’s strategy. A manager should push his players to get better and better, not baby them into being something less.
I dont care what yadi wants.
Odds are quite good kelly plays more games over the next three years for us than he does. Not great.. But maybe 30-40%.
If yadi gets hurt he won’t get his job back.
You dont trade that away.
Think about this another way.
No matter what, sometime in the next 18 months you’re going to have to have a conversation about yadi and his career winding down.
You have two catchers who are his most likely replacements in the minors. One is ready now. One will be ready in the next 18 months if he pans out.
The next question is… Which one is better?
My money is on carson. Which means you have to have that conversation sooner vs. later — like it or not.
One thing that should be said as well… We may be looking at two of the best ten or twenty catcher prospects in all of baseball in the last decade. That is remarkable and I think it is a reason they are so low on our prospect rankings.
That doesn’t mean you just go trade carson… Because stuff happens in baseball… And knizner might just have had an awesome year. But our catcher situation is bordering remarkable at first glance.
My latest offseason thoughts:
1. Trade Grichuk, Piscotty, Gyroko, Diaz, and Flaherty to Angels for Simmons and Bedrosian.
2. Sign JD Martinez
3. Sign Nicasio
4. Sign Lackey1B Carp
CF Pham
LF Fowler
RF JD Martinez
3B DeJong
C Molina
SS Simmons
2B Wong
PRotation: CMart, Reyes, Weaver, Wacha, Lackey or Waino
Pen: Nicasio, Bedrosian, Lyons, Brebbia, Alcantara, Cecil, Bowman or TuiSurprised to see Lackey on your wish list, gscottar. What do you think he will have left in the tank next season at age 39?
I wouldn’t mind having him on a one year deal to bridge the gap to our younger pitchers. He has been pretty good the last few weeks. I think he has more left in the tank than Waino.
You set the bar pretty low there, gscottar. Wainwright’s future is a huge question mark.
Lackey’s ERA for last two weeks is 5.19. For the season, it is 4.67.
Just a guess, but I bet when it finally ends for him, it is not going to be pretty and for sure, it will be someone else’s fault. I’d rather see that kind of “leadership” on the nightly highlights, not in real time.
Whether it is Lackey or not I think we need a veteran 4/5 type starter who can give us some innings on a one year/$10M deal.
Right now we have Martinez and Weaver looking solid, Wacha looks ok but you never know about his injuries, Waino looks done, we don’t know when Reyes will be ready, and Flaherty, Alcantara, and Hudson probably won’t be ready until 2019.
And I don’t see the need to give Lance Lynn a 5 yr/$100M contract when that money could go for a big bat.
The Cards front office always seems to choose the path of least resistance. In 2014, it was Peralta. In 2015, it was the trade for Heyward. In 2016, it was Mike Leake, and for 2017, they added Fowler. I think they will add a second-tier free agent like Moustakas or Frazier to solidify the infield.
I like Gyorko, DeJong, Diaz, and Wong, but I don’t like counting on them.
Outfield-wise, we can then focus on a trade that upgrades one of the spots or the bullpen or package one of them with an infielder for an upgrade there.
Trevor Cahill might be a good fit for a veteran starter (3.69 ERA for San Diego this year) that we could push to the bullpen when Reyes/Flaherty/Hudson are deemed ready.
I am aScott Feldman “fan” he pitched well for a por Reds team and though he got hurt late he was pretty dependable…and on a one year contract… im not sure he gets a longer one again this offseason, and there would be no love lost if he is passed by a youngster.. he is a vet and while i am uncertain on his value in the pen having another vet around if we dont re-sign Lynn may be helpful…
though having said that…there are a back of the rotation starters available this offseason (as any offseason really)
i might not even mind Bartolo Colon
a one year deal for low money and i’d be fine…
i think a lot of it depends on Wainwright’s status…which makes the offseason difficult…
if you dont re-sign Lynn and can count on Waino being back that leaves one spot for Flaherty or Reyes or whomeverIf you don’t re-sign Lynn AND can’t depend on Waino being back (which i think is the case right now), then you have two open spots…and that really is not a good idea IMO…I am not even sure i want to hand Flaherty or Reyes or Gant or whomever a spot in the rotation just yet anyways
If you can re-sign Lynn…this all goes away…as you can put Waino AND the kids in one spot…that’s good depth for injury and Waino not being back…
IMO all signs point to a starting pitcher being acquired…somehow…if Wainwright woudl have returned to the rotation and been able to throw 91 or so…then maybe you take the risk on the kids and him…but Waino being a bigger question mark than he was even a week ago..I think a starter is another thing that is a MUST for the offseason…
the quality of that starter will be a big question and should show how much confidence in the kids or Waino…OR the lack of confidence in them the management has… won’t be an easy decision with so many other needs and deals needing to be made
offseason for me:
-acquire middle order bat
-acquire a closer or at least a very dependable setup man
-acquire a starter either #5 level OR go for an impact starter
-acquire a backup catcher
-trade at least 2 middle infield players from 40 man or that need to be protected for Rule V
-trade at least 3 outfielders from 40man or need protecting ( i would say at least 2 should be from MLB)
-trade at least 2 relievers from 40man or needing to be protected
-trade at least 1 starting pitching prospect from 40man or in need of protectingThat is a lot…and while some of those moves could be done in combination..it still is a lot
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