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I agree Willie. Comiskey was gone from St. Louis by 1892. If the position is that Comsikey did not play for the organization, then what are they doing? Alternatively, if his play with St. Louis in the 1880s was not MLB, then what are they doing? It is not a HOF for non MLB players and it is not for players who did not play for the organization.
It should be noted that Comiskey’s career stats in STL are not really HOF worthy on their face. They gain prominence in the context of the American Association, and the St. Louis teams’ successful years in it. Overall, he is most notable for his role in the founding of the American League. I don’t really favor him or Von der Ahe for the team HOF. Not because of the era, but just that neither did anything HOF worthy IMO.
Well bling I don’t have an issue with him getting in. I’m not one of those that think a player lowers the standards just because they aren’t as great. It’s called tiers. It’s like a birthday party. Not everybody deserves one but I have no issue with everybody except myself having one.
Comiskey was player-manager for teams that went to the World Series four consecutive years, winning one and tying another. How many managers in team history can say that?
I have made my opinion known before on this, and am firmly in the camp of the Cardinal organization originating in 1882. As a kid when I first became interested in baseball history, everything I read about the Cardinals started with the 1880s Browns. Books by Bob Broeg and J Roy Stockton that my dad had, and now and then getting a listen to Sports Open Line on KMOX when Broeg and/or Bob Burnes would host, would reference those early powerhouse clubs. Broeg wrote a book in 1981 subtitled “100 Years of Cardinal Baseball.”
I can understand differentiating the team’s time between the AA and the National League if they want to do that. But the franchise that is today’s St. Louis Cardinals was formed and first played major league baseball in 1882. That is clear.
I am excited to be making some headway on the 1882-1891 years. Hoping to share more soon.
Did you know? 2022 #stlcards team Hall of Fame inductee Charlie Comiskey is the winningest manager in team history, with a .674 mark compiled from 1883-1891. As player-manager, the SLU product led the then-Browns to four league titles and won the Early World Series of 1886. pic.twitter.com/vEyJdEju1i
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) June 20, 2022
Fans can select one former #stlcards Modern Era great from among five for induction into the team Hall of Fame on August 20. Voting opens Saturday, February 25. https://t.co/aqZGWgXdWg pic.twitter.com/aVJ7WP3ovA
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) February 23, 2023
In addition to the five on the ballot, my personal ballot included George Hendrick, but he didn’t receive enough support from the other committee members to make this year’s slate. The good news is that unlike Cooperstown, a player can return to the ballot in the future.
I think everyone would agree that Mr. Freese is the huge favorite this year, his first time eligible.
I’ll have to give this one some careful deliberation before casting my final vote but, I’d say David Freese is preordained, so there’s no hurry for him. Don’t know exactly why, but I don’t get too amped up at the thought of Morris. And although Renteria was my favorite Cardinal player for 2 or 3 seasons, he fell from grace with me when he bolted to the team that had just steamrolled the Cardinals in the WS…Haha! That leaves just one guy left in the four photos and he’s most definitely worth consideration for the simple fact that, with the possible exception of Albert Pujols, he’s the greatest Redbird “power-heater” that I’ve ever seen as a Cardinal fan…I’ll probably go with him before the polls close.
This is a tough group. They all feel a bit fringe to me either due to really good but not great performance or limited years. I think Carlton and Renteria are the most deserving, but they both had better careers with other teams so that makes it hard to accept them to our HoF (We did finally get Hernandez there though!). Freese will be the likely choice due to recency, his postseason legend, being homegrown in St Louis, and the fact that St Louis was definitely his best career stop. But overall, his numbers are probably the worst amongst this group. I’m not really sure which to pick! I do kind of agree with Brian, George Hendrick may have been the best choice.
Just to clarify, committee members can select up to 10 Modern Era players, but there is no priority. I submitted six names this year with Hendrick the only one who didn’t make the cut.
I was wondering who the 5th player was as I didn’t see Carlton’s photo on there, but I not only agree with what you mentioned about him, Jnevel, but I’d also rather forget about him…Haha! As for Renteria, a strong case could be made that his best stretch of work was done in a Cardinal uniform. Freese is de facto already in there, and it wouldn’t bother me one bit if Silent George snuck in there one day. It’s difficult not to laugh and joke when speaking of Andujar, but the fact remains that in addition to being a two time 20 game winner with the Cardinals, he was 2-0 with a 1.35 ERA in 13.1 IP’ed in the ’82 WS. Anyone who watched that ’82 WS 7th game recalls that the game was precariously close to getting out of hand in the visitor halves of both the 5th and 6th inning. Andujar kept the Cardinals in that ballgame on sheer guts alone before the Redbirds came back to take the lead and eventually win their 9th World Series Championship. Joaquin was most definitely a borderline lunatic but, without question, was also one tough Dominican. I think he should be in the Redbird HOF someday.
Haha!…That’s what I figured, BW. I clicked on the image to see if it held the 5th player, but no luck. It’s just as well. I get a little sad when I think of how long he abused the Cardinals once he’d moved on.
Perhaps because I am old enough to remember, I am a strong Carlton supporter. In a very different time, he was traded for something that is old hat today, a salary disagreement. But when he was here, he was exceptional and is Cards HOF worthy, IMO.
Freese had an unbelievable 2011 World Series but otherwise was just a solid but not spectacular player IMO. Kind of like should Roger Maris make the MLB HOF for his one incredible season of 1961?
Of this group I would select Carlton and I agree that Hendrick should be on the list.
The Cardinals HoF has reached the point where now its just a matter of how watered down we want it to be or not be. To each his own on that.
I think probably all of the individual team HOF’s are watered down a little bit, Bling. Probably just the nature of the concept of team HOF’s. I had never taken a look at a list of all of the members of the Cardinal’s HOF until just now. There’s 50 of them and there’s really not a name on there of which I’d offer up any genuine objections. Heck, they could put Tommy Lawless in there and I wouldn’t kick and buck over it. However, if Vern Rapp’s name ever surfaces on the ballot, I’ll file a formal complaint…Haha!
Yeah, I’ve got my favorites too, 1TD, like any long time fan.
The way this sort of thing works is those invested in the process in one way or another never run out of names, shut off the lights and go home. Ten years from now we’ll be down to Pete Kozma and Rex the Wonder Dog.
Going by WAR as a Cardinal, Carlton tops the list. Freese is the lowest, but that magical 2011 post season carries a lot of weight. It definitely means something to come up big when the ultimate prize is at stake.
Silent George was darn good as a Cardinal, a 125 OPS+ and a WAR a couple notches below Lefty – about the same as Matt Morris. He certainly is worthy of consideration and you would think will be on the ballot at some point.
An all-but-forgotten Cardinal I have championed for the veteran vote is Larry Jackson. Under-rated hurler. His Cardinal bWAR is about another 33% higher than Super Steve (28+ compared to Carlton’s ~21) He’s a little like a contemporary, Joe Cunningham. You don’t hear much about him, but when you dig into the numbers you realize he was an excellent player and better than he may have been considered at the time. But with Jackson, in his time he was pretty highly thought of as I believe he made at least a coupe of opening day starts for the club. So he had that “ace” look about him to the on field management team at the time. A 24 game winner with the Cubs in the year we won it all (1964).
You hear a lot about how former Cardinal Ernie Broglio was a bust with the Cubs. You don’t hear much about how the Cubs won the Jackson & McDaniel for George Altman deal a year earlier. The fact that the Cubs were still not very good despite getting the better of that deal has a lot to do with it, whereas the Cards don’t win in ‘64 with out Brock. The Cubs did improve a lot from ‘62 to ‘63, with Jackson and McDaniel being a big part of that.
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