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A little aside pertaining to Carlton…Everone knows about Bob Gibson’s propensity to work a CG, but the most CG’s the great RHP’er ever amassed in a season was 28 CG’s, which he achieved in both ’68 and ’69. Steve Carlton worked 30 CG’s in ’72, which also happened to be his first season in the Big Leagues in which he pitched in a uniform not featuring the birds on the bat.
Another fact about Steve Carlton is that he had a good enough move to 1B that he holds the all-time record for pick-offs. He also holds the all time record for balks. Hey, there’s a fine line that steps over to greatness…
Larry Jackson has been on the consideration list in recent years. There are some very good Veteran Era players still on the outside.
As far as the pipeline of Modern Era players, I was personally in favor of cutting the vote back from two to one several years before the DeWitts decided to do it. But it is their Hall and their team… The good news is that at least five years’ worth of guaranteed future inductees were on the team last year – Albert, Yadi, Waino, Goldy and Arenado.
I don’t know how many noticed mention in the article that there will be an ownership selection this year. Again, I have a nice list, but the DeWitts make that call themselves.
Yeah, at least 5, BW. And with any luck at all, I’d say a chance for 2 or 3 more with The Nootz as the odds on favorite. I expect Ratsbuddy to chime in at any moment…Haha!
The mention of Larry Jackson earlier in this thread prompted me to see that he placed 2nd in the ’64 CYA voting to winner Dean Chance of the Angels. Koufax finished 3rd in the voting that season of which was still 3 years prior to the decision to expand to a CYA for each league.
should Roger Maris make the MLB HOF for his one incredible season of 1961?
With all due respect…. many folks only remember ’61 because it was such an incredible season for Maris.
They need to consider that Roger was a two time MVP ’60 and ’61. He was a seven time All-star and has a golden glove also. Maris was a big part of the Card’s ’67 and ’68 seasons. I was in St. Louis during those two seasons and went to many games when I should have been studying. The fans loved him.Out of that group I’m voting for Morris, I’ve voted for him every time he’s appeared. Wish ol silent George would have made it though. I do wish we were allowed to vote for two. I don’t believe in the watered down scenario.
Couple of facts about Roger Maris is that he’s one of only two players to be awarded consecutive MVP awards and not be elected to the HOF. The other player is Dale Murphy. The other fact is that during the ’61 season in which he collected a then record 61 HR’s, Maris never once received an IBB. He was slotted in front of Mantle for almost the entire ’61 season. Also, I can’t vouch for this being a fact, but I’ve been led to understand that Roger became very close friends with Mike Shannon while they were Redbird teammates for two seasons in the late 60’s.
I always thought that close friendship was an interesting one only for the reason that Maris had a reputation as being someone who was a bit introverted and well, you know Shannon…Haha! In any case, yeah, I’ve heard Mike speak very highly of his good pal on several occasions.
Yep, Rog and Mike Shannon were good friends. Rog and Mick were good friends as well.
At a SABR event here some 10 years or so ago, Ryne Duren was part of the group of former Denver Bears that they had as a panel. I asked Duren about Rog and he said, “I thought he was a really great guy.”
Maris’ ’61 was something with the home run record, but he was real solid from 1960 through 1964. He injured his wrist in ’65 and missed most of the season. It zapped his power, and with us in the big ball park he focused more on moving the runner over and being a team player.
Not sure if anyone read the comment Tim McCarver made regarding Maris. It is in an article that was about his passing. McCarver said in a game in ’67 he struck out in a clutch situation and was real upset about it. He went in the dugout and took has bat and was beating on his helmet trying to break it.
That helmet just would not break, and he went down in the tunnel and was hammering on it. Maris was there as well and calmly said something like, “Do you realize if you get hurt doing that how many guys you will let down?” Tim said he had not thought of it that way, and Rog went on with something like, “You are a big part of this team, and we need you to be at your best.”
One of those things that guys do that does not make it into the stats line, but can impact the number of “Ws” you see in the standings.
I can recall several players injuring themselves as a result of losing their composures in a similar manner, BikeMike. And I often get a little nervous during the obligatory HP celebrations after a walk off. Last season little Eddie looked as though he were a baby gazelle being attacked by a hungry lion as Pujols grabbed ahold of him after a game ender…Haha!
Who will be next to wear the Red Jacket? #CardsHOF
Vote now at https://t.co/LwKHI4s8oF pic.twitter.com/ZfmiF17NwU
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) February 25, 2023
Who will be next to wear the Red Jacket? #CardsHOF
Vote now at https://t.co/LwKHI4s8oF pic.twitter.com/ZfmiF17NwU
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) February 25, 2023
Willie:
Out of that group I’m voting for Morris, I’ve voted for him every time he’s appeared….. I do wish we were allowed to vote for two. I don’t believe in the watered down scenario.
Spot on Willie…. I’m with you on these two points.
I always thought that close friendship was an interesting one only for the reason that Maris had a reputation as being someone who was a bit introverted and well, you know Shannon
Very true. Maris did not enjoy the spotlight. I have read stories about the immense pressure he was under during the 1961 season, causing him to lose hair and constantly have an upset stomach.
Kind of like the mild mannered and stoic Lou Gehrig compared the bombastic and gregarious Babe Ruth.
Yeah gscottar, I wasn’t trying to create the impression that Maris was the loner type, but from what I understand, he was really affected by the attention and immense focus placed on the HR chase by the countless NY media outlets. He may well have been a gregarious type of guy outside of that fishbowl sort of setting.
Brian said that he thought David Freese was the favorite. I never thought so…I voted for Steve Carlton.
David Freese only played a little over 4 seasons with the Cardinals(War a little over 6). Carlton played a little over 6 seasons with the Cardinals(War 21).
I understand what you’re driving at, Gamecard, but Freese has the advantage of not being a player who ruthlessly tormented the St. Louis, Cardinals every time he took a turn facing his old team for what seemed like an eternity…Steve Carlton mercilessly bludgeoned the Redbirds into submission for almost 15 seasons with absolutely no relent…Haha!
Freese is all about whether you think his 2011 post season makes him a HoF. Other than that, he wouldn’t be in the conversation. On the other hand, a baseball fan lives for exactly that performance and that drama. Its a matter of what you think the HoF should be, and there are various opinions about that.
I would also think that the majority of voters for the Cardinals HOF are less than 50 years old and doesn’t remember Carlton pitching for the Cardinals. They do remember Freese.
What’s so painful about Steve Carlton is that I vividly remember him pitching for the Cardinals. I still have a filled out scorecard from Game 5 of the ’67 WS in which Carlton was the Redbird starter and losing pitcher of decision in a 3-1 loss to Jim Lonborg and the Red Sox. That same scorecard has several autographs from players on both participating teams. Even though I was a young boy, you always remember those types of things. But what I really remember, is the manner in which Carlton thrashed my favorite team well into my adulthood when he worked the mound for Philly…Haha! He was no bargain.
I don’t even know how to vote for any of these candidates for the Cardinal HOF and probably wouldn’t cast a ballot if I did know how. I’ll just be happy for whoever the fans decide should get in there and receive a red sport jacket. As for candidates for the HOF in Cooperstown, I’ve always thought it’d be a good idea for me to be afforded an official ballot for that one…I’d certainly exercise the right to punch it…And while they’re at it, they could also include sending me a ballot for both the MVP and CYA at every season’s end…Haha!
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