Cardinals Team Hall of Fame

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  • #129405
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Ditto!

    #132768
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    As expected, the 2020 induction ceremony will not be held. Next year, two classes will go in at once.

    #147252
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    At this point, plans for Winter Warm-Up are up in the air. Normally, during that extended weekend, the committee also finds time to sit down and evaluate candidates for the team Hall of Fame. So there are no plans there yet, either. Of course, the 2020 selections – Tom Herr, John Tudor and Bill White – have yet to be formally inducted.

    Who would you like to see on the 2021 ballot?

    #147256
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Keith Hernandez
    Jack Clark
    Joaquin Andujar

    #147258
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Clark is one who hasn’t received a lot of attention. He was with the Cards just three years (the minimum), but he was the team’s top hitter in two of those three years, as they lost in the World Series in 1985 and 1987. (Due to injury, he couldn’t play in the WS in 1987.)

    How do you measure short bursts of high success against longer term contributors on teams that went all the way (like a Julian Javier, for example)?

    Does it matter that Clark is considered by most a Giant? (Some use this against Hernandez, who was a Cardinal longer than a Met.)

    #147261
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    To me Clark should be considered the same way John Tudor was. A short but very productive tenure.

    Clark’s home run in Game 6 of the 1985 NLCS is one of my all time favorite Cardinal moments.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Avatargscottar.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Avatargscottar.
    #147265
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    You raise a good point. There are definitely parallels between Tudor (who is already in) and Clark.

    But if key moments are a factor as important or maybe even more so than longevity, should David Freese get in one day? No bigger moments than his…

    (P.S. He doesn’t qualify yet. Three years after retirement.)

    #147269
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Possibly. Iconic moments have a lot of value.

    But Clark had more than one moment in his time here. He placed third in the 1987 NL MVP vote behind Andre Dawson and Ozzie Smith.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1987_National_League_Most_Valuable_Player_Award

    #147270
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Not to diminish third place finishes in anything, but is that Hall of Fame qualification material? I think of any Hall as being the very best.

    #147277
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Again I think an argument could be made that Clark was as valuable to the Cardinals of the mid 1980’s as Tudor was.

    It is also very possible that Clark’s less than stellar off the field comments and behavior of recent years hasn’t helped his image.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Avatargscottar.
    #147442
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Interesting thoughts on Jack Clark. He should be considered. A similar case could be made for Orlando Cepeda. Unanimous NL MVP and the main cog in the 1967 World Championship season. Plus that ‘67 team is one of our greatest ever. On my personal list, they are the second greatest Cardinal team ever, behind the ‘42 club. Cepeda was actually with the club a month or so under three years, so I do not know if that disqualifies him since he was not quite at the full three year total.

    Yet another guy somewhat similar is Dick Groat. He is at the three-year minimum, but was second in the NL MVP voting in 1963, and was the shortstop on the World Champion 1964 club. In the three years with us he accumulated 12.4 bWAR. Even Clark had only 9.7 in his three years. Cepeda was at 11.0.

    Of the three, I would pick both Cepeda and Groat ahead of Clark. Jack is more in our memories though, having played 20 years later than Groat and Cepeda.

    Hernandez is a no-brainer and really should be in the Cardinals’ Hall by now. But that Met image and his going off track in life a bit at the time he was traded has tarnished his image. Had he had exactly the same numbers but been traded to say the Baltimore Orioles rather than the Mets, he would be in our Hall right now.

    Andujar is a good one to bring up. And I have always liked Javier – steady playing second baseman for a decade and a member of three pennant winners.

    A couple of old-timers who I think should be considered are Taylor Douthit and Johnny Mike. Not a fan vote for those guys I know.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by bicyclemikebicyclemike.
    #147444
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Just to clarify, Cepeda, Groat and Douthit would be veteran era players considered by the committee. Clark would be on the fan ballot of modern era players. The line between the two is 40 years since retirement and the groups are reviewed separately.

    I find the fan prejudice against Hernandez disappointing. If you meant Johnny Mize, he is already in the Cards HOF.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by Brian WaltonBrian Walton.
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