TCN’s 2023 Top 50 Prospect Countdown

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  • #211762
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #211767
    bccran
    Participant

    Pinder? The 26 year old smallish outfielder who has all of 35 plate appearances at the AAA level after being drafted in 2017?

    #211770
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Pinder is ranked no. 49 on the community vote here. He is no. 48 our our list. I don’t get the concern.

    #211771
    bccran
    Participant

    Because Pinder is like some other smallish outfielders the Cardinals have drafted who have neither outstanding power or outstanding speed.
    No chance at all of being impact players. They’re just fillers who probably shouldn’t be in the Top 50.

    #211772
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Pinder is one inch shorter than Harrison Bader, but you didn’t like him, either.

    In terms of Top 50 criteria, there are many who have little to no chance of becoming impact players. In fact, there aren’t 50 future impact players in the entire system. But every successful team also needs role players who contribute in their own way. Just reaching the majors is a tremendous accomplishment.

    Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, albeit a minority one.

    #211776
    bccran
    Participant

    I don’t think it’s a minority opinion among those who follow the minors closely, Brian. We know that around 85-90% of the players will never make it to the majors for any period of duration. We look for speed, power, or a high OBP to attract our attention. And smallish guys who exhibit none of the above quite frankly aren’t very exciting. You bring up Bader for your example. Bader caught fire his last season as a Gator. His first year in the Cardinal system, he hit 11 home runs and stole 17 bases in only 61 games. OBP of .358. His second season, and first full season, he hit 19 home runs and stole 13 bases. His second full season he hit 20 home runs and stole 15 bases. There was a lot of excitement there as far as his potential. Your example was a poor one.

    #211777
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Bc, where did you place Pinder in your rankings?

    #211785
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I was not comparing the two as prospects. I rank these players for a living so I know the difference without you pointing it out. It was simply a response to your concern about Pinder’s size. Why get concerned over prospect #47 or #48, especially when you can’t read the article that explains why he was selected there?

    Did you vote along with this community? I took a quick look at that section of the voting thread and didn’t see anything. I believe the posters here do follow the minors closely despite your assertion they must not. They ranked Pinder as did we and you would not, based on your criteria, but there is no reason to profess that your knowledge is superior. They are just opinions. Why not simply disagree and leave it at that?

    #211788
    bccran
    Participant

    Sure, I look at the size and strength of the players when I’m at WWU and Spring Training. And I also look at
    their stats. And if I see an outfielder who’s 5’ 10”, 175 pounds and hasn’t shown much power or speed in a number of years in the system I don’t see a whole lot of hope for him. Especially if he’s 26, has been in the system for 5 years, and hasn’t even played much at the AAA level.

    I understand and appreciate the expertise you have in rating prospects for a living, Brian. And I also appreciate your tenacity, knowing the large majority of whom you rate will never see a major league stadium unless it’s sitting in the stands.

    #211790
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    The issue with Pinder is that he is never healthy. He’s never played 90 games in a season.

    Why you are getting so worked up over someone ranked #48 or 49 is really difficult to comprehend.

    #211794
    Jnevel
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    For what it’s worth, Kyle Reid just listed Pinder at #34 and he watches a ton of MiLB baseball. I personally have him at #48. He has a good hit tool and can cover CF and is a good defender all over. He’s really a future 5th outfielder – a guy you call up to cover an injury or who maybe occupies the 25th spot on a MLB roster. But that’s something at least. But we also have Hurst and Antico competing for that same role and I might be inclined to choose Pinder 3rd out of the 3. Close between Hurst and Pinder but I definitely like Antico best purely because his speed is very useable. He will just have to prove that he can still hit at AAA.

    This is Pinder’s final year before free agency I believe so he’ll have to put it all together or head out.

    #211795
    bccran
    Participant

    Brian – if you look closely, you’ll see that I started the community voting on your forum when 25 didn’t have the time this year. I tabulated all the results for each round up through the 20th round, as I said I would do at the outset. And I did participate in the voting at times. Please give credit to people who try to help when credit is due. After taking it through the 20th round I got tied up with some business things. Blingboy took it from there up through the 50th round and did a great job.

    #211797
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    That is all true and you were thanked with the others who invested their time. Yet, none of it has to do with the subject, Pinder, whom the community placed on their top 50. You did not vote at that point and after the fact, disagree with the voters and TCN, too. That is your right but it seems like any relevant points have already been made…

    #211800
    bccran
    Participant

    We’re all due our opinions. To me, guys like Pinder simply are not prospects. 26 year olds at AA ball might be better served looking for another more lucrative profession.
    Also, I explained why I didn’t in later rounds.

    #211808
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #211809
    bccran
    Participant

    Looks like an excellent article.

    #211946
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #212049
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #212053
    bccran
    Participant

    Was it a tough call picking Hence over Graceffo?

    #212055
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I discussed that in “The Final Tally” article. The net is that I have Graceffo ahead of Hence, but Blake sees it the other way. In fact, he put Graceffo at no. 5, also behind Burleson, so Hence averaged out ahead of Graceffo.

    #212058
    bccran
    Participant

    Okay, thanks.

    #212093
    Gagliano
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I find interesting that four of the five who graduated (Yepez, Donovan, Nootbar, Pallante) were no better than 28th in the 2021 rankings. They did show much better in the 2022 rankings. I wonder how much the COVID compressed 2020 interfered with being able to spot prospects. And thanks for doing that story about the folks who moved off the list, Brian!

    #212096
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Glad you are enjoying the articles. I like to bring the historical view over and above just providing this year’s list. When I found myself asking these questions about changes over time, I did the research. And once I did the research, it only makes sense to share it. It is something I don’t see others doing.

    #212121
    blingboy
    Participant

    I especially enjoyed Blake’s contributions. Taking us through the thought process in detail was extraordinary. Brian walks us through the process often enough, but also getting the same from a guest contributor was unexpected. I really appreciate that kind of content.

    #212123
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Agreed. Blake’s level of detail was a real difference maker.

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