StL 2024 Game #48 thread – Monday, May 20 vs. Orioles

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  • #253084
    AlbertTheMachine
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    Actually by most metrics we already do have a bottom 10 pitching staff even with some over performances. 22nd or lower in ERA, FIP, K/9, HR/9, and fastball velocity. Our only stat in the top half is BB/9, where we rank 8th.

    #253085
    KeepComingBack
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    Any serious thoughts about playoffs would have to include pitching help at the deadline. If their offense continues on an upward trajectory, i see them as a wildcard. I’m not sure that’s best for us longterm. But they would have to be buyers or face total mutiny from their already tenuous fanbase.

    #253086
    blingboy
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    Monday’s win happened even though the bronze busts in the middle of the lineup didn’t do diddly. Siani and Burleson are welcome surprises.

    #253087
    KeepComingBack
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    The 3 and 4 havnt contributed diddly since 2022. We seriously have to at least move Goldy downnnnn. Move Winn up. Move Burly farther up. Until Contreras geta back I would go Winn Donovan Noot Burly Arenado. Or something like that separating Arenado and Goldy.

    #253088
    blingboy
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    Goldy had been down in the order but had a couple good games. That’s all it takes when you’re a money guy. Now he will have to suck for weeks before moving back down.

    #253095
    LACardFan
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    Looking at Goldy’s splits:

    – He has a .717 OPS in Away Games vs a .440 OPS in Home Games. Maybe it’s time to bench him at home?
    – He has a .900 OPS while batting 5th vs a .492 OPS batting 2nd and a .567 OPS batting 3rd. Need to move him down in the lineup!!!

    #253097
    jj-cf-stl
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    The HAL lineup may not be optomizing each batting order spot, but I wouldn’t mess with it. It’s clicking.

    This lineup puts everyone in a familiar role. The only guy who could look out of place is Gorman, after transitioning from batting third, but seventh is where I wanted him while he was batting third, so I kinda lucked out.

    If it ain’t broke…. wait until it is.

    #253098
    KeepComingBack
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    When your third and fourth guys in the lineup aren’t producing, it’s broke. How many 3 run bombs do you think you are going to get from Siani?

    #253101
    1toughdominican
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    Yeah, if both or even one of those bats can begin to generate a reasonable degree of production this team will have a chance to win with some consistency provided they continue to get the sort of adequate pitching we’ve seen so far. The answer to the question is, 1.

    #253104
    gscottar
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    The Orioles do need a Closer. If we are selling in July, I would shop Helsey to them along with some other pieces to see what it would take to get Coby Mayo. I doubt they will trade him though unless it is for Mason Miller.

    Heston Kjerstad is the Oriole player the Cardinals should covet if they pull off a trade. I saw that kid play in college and he can really rake. A combo of JD Drew and the late Oscar Taveras.

    #253105
    gscottar
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    I don’t know if you guys caught it last night but Sonny Gray actually motioned to the dugout for Marmol to come get him. I don’t know if I have ever seen that before. The Bally Sports Midwest Crew and John Denton were trying to spin it as Gray showing great leadership but I’m not sure how I feel about that. I can guarantee you that Bob Gibson would have never done such a thing.

    #253108
    gscottar
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    #253110
    LACardFan
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    Gray was at 45 pitches after 4 innings.

    I believe he was at 57 after 5, but am not sure.

    He finished with 88 pitches, because Winn had two errors in one inning.

    If you want to blame anybody, blame Winn.

    #253111
    LACardFan
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    The HAL lineup may not be optomizing each batting order spot, but I wouldn’t mess with it. It’s clicking.

    The Cardinals mantra: “be good enough.”

    That’s the type of thinking that takes you from a perennial playoff team to one that is lucky to make the playoffs each year to one that struggles to stay out of last place.

    #253112
    blingboy
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    Asking to come out after 88 pitches is, dare I say, pusillanimous.

    #253113
    KeepComingBack
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    dare I say, pusillanimous.

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    I had to laugh. Your vocabulary is clearly superior to mine. But it still means what I was thinking.

    #253114
    gscottar
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    I’m not blaming anyone. I’m saying that most hardcore pitchers have to be drug off the mound instead of tapping out. Chris Carpenter comes to mind.

    #253115
    Jnevel
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    To what end though? If you know you’re out of gas or that you risk injury by continuing, isn’t the responsible and accountable thing to exit the game? We all love the alpha who thinks that he’s better than the competition no matter what. But then at some point in their career they just end up looking like a fool or they get hurt.

    #253116
    blingboy
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    Why would your Ace be out of gas and risking injury after 88 pitches? Seriously, what would be the explanation for that?

    #253117
    Jnevel
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    Probably 100 explanations. He’s been sick. It’s hot and humid. He’s thrown a long inning earlier that was extra stressful. Maybe he warmed up longer than usual prior to the game to ensure he’d be ready. Maybe he threw a longer side session a few days ago to work out a kink. Maybe he wasn’t tired but just hurting? Who knows? I’ll tell you who knows. Sonny Gray. And it’s his job to let someone know if it helps the team.

    #253124
    gscottar
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    I’m not debating whether he should have come out of the game or not. I’m just saying that the way it happened was most unusual. Usually the manager or pitching coach will go out to the mound to see if the pitcher is gassed or not or the catcher will signal the dugout to go out to the mound, the pither will say he is fine, and the manager will then have to decide if he believes what he is hearing or if the tone and body language tells another story which results in the hook. In this particular case none of that happened. Gray motioned to the dugout to come get me and that was it.

    #253125
    jj-cf-stl
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    Seems like “HAL” is averaging about 6 runs per game. Tough crowd.

    #253126
    1toughdominican
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    Well, he’s at 3.8 runs per, but the good news is that the Cardinals have moved up from 29th to 25th in runs scored. In other areas of the sunny side, Seattle has scored one more run this season than the Cardinals and the Mariners are in 1st place atop the ALW, so maybe there’s hope.

    #253130
    jj-cf-stl
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    “Hal” is about a week old. Bling named it after the losing streak. 49 runs, 8 games and we need to juggle it? Pass.

    #253131
    1toughdominican
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    Yeah, it’s been better the last several games. It could get real good if the two guys positioned at the teeth of the order ever begin to generate even a sliver of what they’ve produced their entire careers. It almost has to happen eventually, right?

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