Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › StL 2024 Game #48 thread – Monday, May 20 vs. Orioles
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1toughdominican.
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May 20, 2024 at 10:07 pm #253084
Actually by most metrics we already do have a bottom 10 pitching staff even with some over performances. 22nd or lower in ERA, FIP, K/9, HR/9, and fastball velocity. Our only stat in the top half is BB/9, where we rank 8th.
May 21, 2024 at 4:41 am #253085Any serious thoughts about playoffs would have to include pitching help at the deadline. If their offense continues on an upward trajectory, i see them as a wildcard. I’m not sure that’s best for us longterm. But they would have to be buyers or face total mutiny from their already tenuous fanbase.
May 21, 2024 at 5:30 am #253086Monday’s win happened even though the bronze busts in the middle of the lineup didn’t do diddly. Siani and Burleson are welcome surprises.
May 21, 2024 at 5:38 am #253087The 3 and 4 havnt contributed diddly since 2022. We seriously have to at least move Goldy downnnnn. Move Winn up. Move Burly farther up. Until Contreras geta back I would go Winn Donovan Noot Burly Arenado. Or something like that separating Arenado and Goldy.
May 21, 2024 at 5:54 am #253088Goldy had been down in the order but had a couple good games. That’s all it takes when you’re a money guy. Now he will have to suck for weeks before moving back down.
May 21, 2024 at 8:18 am #253095Looking at Goldy’s splits:
– He has a .717 OPS in Away Games vs a .440 OPS in Home Games. Maybe it’s time to bench him at home?
– He has a .900 OPS while batting 5th vs a .492 OPS batting 2nd and a .567 OPS batting 3rd. Need to move him down in the lineup!!!May 21, 2024 at 8:36 am #253097
jj-cf-stlParticipantThe HAL lineup may not be optomizing each batting order spot, but I wouldn’t mess with it. It’s clicking.
This lineup puts everyone in a familiar role. The only guy who could look out of place is Gorman, after transitioning from batting third, but seventh is where I wanted him while he was batting third, so I kinda lucked out.
If it ain’t broke…. wait until it is.
May 21, 2024 at 9:04 am #253098When your third and fourth guys in the lineup aren’t producing, it’s broke. How many 3 run bombs do you think you are going to get from Siani?
May 21, 2024 at 10:20 am #253101Yeah, if both or even one of those bats can begin to generate a reasonable degree of production this team will have a chance to win with some consistency provided they continue to get the sort of adequate pitching we’ve seen so far. The answer to the question is, 1.
May 21, 2024 at 10:32 am #253104The Orioles do need a Closer. If we are selling in July, I would shop Helsey to them along with some other pieces to see what it would take to get Coby Mayo. I doubt they will trade him though unless it is for Mason Miller.
Heston Kjerstad is the Oriole player the Cardinals should covet if they pull off a trade. I saw that kid play in college and he can really rake. A combo of JD Drew and the late Oscar Taveras.
May 21, 2024 at 10:34 am #253105I don’t know if you guys caught it last night but Sonny Gray actually motioned to the dugout for Marmol to come get him. I don’t know if I have ever seen that before. The Bally Sports Midwest Crew and John Denton were trying to spin it as Gray showing great leadership but I’m not sure how I feel about that. I can guarantee you that Bob Gibson would have never done such a thing.
May 21, 2024 at 10:40 am #253108May 21, 2024 at 11:09 am #253110Gray was at 45 pitches after 4 innings.
I believe he was at 57 after 5, but am not sure.
He finished with 88 pitches, because Winn had two errors in one inning.
If you want to blame anybody, blame Winn.
May 21, 2024 at 11:13 am #253111The HAL lineup may not be optomizing each batting order spot, but I wouldn’t mess with it. It’s clicking.
The Cardinals mantra: “be good enough.”
That’s the type of thinking that takes you from a perennial playoff team to one that is lucky to make the playoffs each year to one that struggles to stay out of last place.
May 21, 2024 at 11:14 am #253112Asking to come out after 88 pitches is, dare I say, pusillanimous.
May 21, 2024 at 11:36 am #253113dare I say, pusillanimous.
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PostsI had to laugh. Your vocabulary is clearly superior to mine. But it still means what I was thinking.
May 21, 2024 at 12:08 pm #253114I’m not blaming anyone. I’m saying that most hardcore pitchers have to be drug off the mound instead of tapping out. Chris Carpenter comes to mind.
May 21, 2024 at 12:17 pm #253115To what end though? If you know you’re out of gas or that you risk injury by continuing, isn’t the responsible and accountable thing to exit the game? We all love the alpha who thinks that he’s better than the competition no matter what. But then at some point in their career they just end up looking like a fool or they get hurt.
May 21, 2024 at 1:02 pm #253116Why would your Ace be out of gas and risking injury after 88 pitches? Seriously, what would be the explanation for that?
May 21, 2024 at 1:07 pm #253117Probably 100 explanations. He’s been sick. It’s hot and humid. He’s thrown a long inning earlier that was extra stressful. Maybe he warmed up longer than usual prior to the game to ensure he’d be ready. Maybe he threw a longer side session a few days ago to work out a kink. Maybe he wasn’t tired but just hurting? Who knows? I’ll tell you who knows. Sonny Gray. And it’s his job to let someone know if it helps the team.
May 21, 2024 at 2:30 pm #253124I’m not debating whether he should have come out of the game or not. I’m just saying that the way it happened was most unusual. Usually the manager or pitching coach will go out to the mound to see if the pitcher is gassed or not or the catcher will signal the dugout to go out to the mound, the pither will say he is fine, and the manager will then have to decide if he believes what he is hearing or if the tone and body language tells another story which results in the hook. In this particular case none of that happened. Gray motioned to the dugout to come get me and that was it.
May 21, 2024 at 2:42 pm #253125
jj-cf-stlParticipantSeems like “HAL” is averaging about 6 runs per game. Tough crowd.
May 21, 2024 at 3:16 pm #253126Well, he’s at 3.8 runs per, but the good news is that the Cardinals have moved up from 29th to 25th in runs scored. In other areas of the sunny side, Seattle has scored one more run this season than the Cardinals and the Mariners are in 1st place atop the ALW, so maybe there’s hope.
May 21, 2024 at 4:13 pm #253130
jj-cf-stlParticipant“Hal” is about a week old. Bling named it after the losing streak. 49 runs, 8 games and we need to juggle it? Pass.
May 21, 2024 at 4:30 pm #253131Yeah, it’s been better the last several games. It could get real good if the two guys positioned at the teeth of the order ever begin to generate even a sliver of what they’ve produced their entire careers. It almost has to happen eventually, right?
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