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C27 said:
1) Kim sure looks like he ought to be in the starting 5.
2) SO far MO and SHildt seems against using 6 starters.
3) Or would piggybacking be possible with 2 of the starters?
4) Also, I never thought how valuable the taxi squad could be. If say, PDL or Gomber are needed for 2 or 3 innings one game, they can be put on the taxi squad the next couple of games. That way the pitching staff can be kept fresh.1) Yes, but there is no room for Kim to start right now.
2) Six is not happening. Not sure why some writers are not listening to Shildt and Maddux. They have been very clear about this all along.
3) There are going to be designated long guys ready every day. They may not be formal piggybacks, but long relief is how Kim, Ponce and Gomber are likely to be used initially.
4) That is not the way it works. Taxi squadders are minor leaguers. So if you get put on the taxi squud coming off the StL roster, it is the same as being optioned out. 10 day limit before returning, option burned, etc.P.S. The only reason the taxi squadders are with the team is in case of an emergency injury. With the testing and quarantine process, if someone got hurt, it could take multiple days before a replacement from Springfield could travel to wherever they are and be cleared. This way, they are right there and ready, but only if really needed.
How do we view Cecil’s performance? Is it enough to make the team? I don’ think so. To me, since his salary is prorated, he is easier to cut. There are far too many better arms in the system, and since there is no minor league season, there is less benefit to sending a Whitley, or Oviedo, for example, to Springfield. With only 5 inning intra squad games, Cecil may only have one more chance.
Cecil has to be cut. Even if they sent him to Springfield to work on his new arm slot some more, he would just be a nuisance that is wasting the coaches time. If they brought him to St. Louis and kept him long enough to lose a game or two or three before they cut him, that would be unforgivable because the coming season is so short. They should cut him immediately. He has a negative value in that he would only bring harm to the team and the franchise if he were kept. I still think that whoever scouted Cecil and recommend signing him to begin with should be severely punished before being fired.
bccran said:
Why wouldn’t Kim be in the rotation if he clearly looks like one of the 5 best starters?
Who said that? He is one of the SIX best starters – or maybe one of the best EIGHT starters, because Ponce and Gomber have also been very good. All eight of them OUGHT to be in the starting five, but the math just doesn’t work.
Shildt and Maddux have expressed their feelings all along and I have documented them there.
On Cecil, I just finished my Opening Day roster prediction article to run in the morning. When I step back and look at the numbers, my view is that the relievers not yet in camp and not yet ready to pitch may have bought Cecil a bit of time. But just a bit.
mud, on Gallegos and the others, if you scroll back one page in this thread, you will find all the news from camp yesterday.
Compiling stats from #stlcards intrasquad play this morning. Please emphasize the usual disclaimers about small sample size, players working on things, and what have you.
Wong, Edman, Goldschmidt combined: 3-37, 5 BB, 9 Ks. No XBH.
— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) July 18, 2020
Lane Thomas and Justin Williams are a combined 1-17 with 8 Ks.
Not surprising, then, that 3-10 Austin Dean is gaining some traction.
— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) July 18, 2020
Convincing counterpoint, bccran. “Because I think so” is very compelling. 😉
Seriously, you are not disagreeing with me. Your issue is with the manager and the pitching coach. They decide how many starters they use and who they will be. I am just sharing what they are saying.
They have been crystal clear since before camp even opened that there will be just a five-man rotation. (FWIW, I get that and agree with it 100%.) While it is not yet official that Kim is not among the starting five, it has been signaled very strongly.
I’ll be interested to see if there are more arm injuries this year. The ramp-up/training routines for pitchers is very different this season. Will this impact what their arms are capable of handling out of the gate? Adding to that potential stressor, we’re starting the race at the beginning of the homestretch. Pitchers and managers might not be so patient to glide into the mid-season form like in a normal season. It makes sense that some teams are considering a 6-man rotation.
I can think of two major ways to try to protect arms in this environment. One is to have them throw less often by elongating their normal routine. The other is to have them throw fewer pitches per outing, but keep them on the throwing schedule they are comfortable with.
For starters, you are suggesting no. 1 (six man rotation) may be better than no. 2 (use long relievers or piggybacks). Without data, we have no way to know for sure.
(For relievers, the answer is the larger roster, but the three-batter minimum might actually hurt no. 2.)
The approach taken may also depend on the personnel available. Some teams look at the talent dropoff and don’t want their no. 6 man to have to start. I’ve heard of a few clubs considering a six-man rotation, but it seems the exception.
Closer to home, as I have said before, as good as the Cardinals are, I would be against a plan that has Jack Flaherty making fewer starts in a season in which every win counts 2.7 times more than usual. Of course, no one wants to see Flaherty throw 130 pitches per outing, but there is no reason to worry he is more likely to be injured pitching every fifth day instead of every sixth when being used normally.
With all of his good pen options and the urgency of the short season, it will be interesting to see if Shildt pulls his starters more quickly in 2020. I think that could be more likely than potentially overusing his starting five.
After the season, the only data that might be a large enough population to be significant would be to look at MLB pitching injuries as a whole. The downside of that is different team approaches to handling their pitchers workloads would be lost in the consolidation of data.
A poster makes a statement that there is no room in the rotation for Kim, but the final 5 haven’t been officially named yet. Kim has definitely been one of the best 5 starters so far. Let’s see what happens.
Today we placed RHP Giovanny Gallegos and LHP Ricardo Sánchez on the Injured List.
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) July 18, 2020
Alex Reyes is on the field for the #stlcards
— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) July 18, 2020
Does anyone have the stats so far for all the outfielders? –
Fowler, O’Neill, Bader, Thomas, Carlson, Williams, Ravelo, and Dean?
Alex Reyes tested positive during his intake testing. First he knew of it. Had no symptoms. Was retested daily after four days. Was notified yesterday of second negative test.
Last time he threw from a mound was July 1. Doesn’t know his plan to build up yet. Had been throwing two sets of 20 pitches in live pens. Got bigger and stronger during time out. Worked on delivery. Rented a house in Port St. Lucie and went to Jupiter 2-3 times per week.
Doesn’t think about if one week is enough to get ready. When called, he will go out there and get outs.
Stayed at his home in StL alone last 14 days. Did body weight workouts and pushups. Also played a lot of video games. Mentioned he plays “The Show”, which he believes he is pretty good at. He closed by saying his guy on the video game is a starter. “I will never stop working toward my goal as a starter.”
Edmundo Sosa says since arriving in camp, his entire focus is on getting work in to demonstrate value.
Working the most at third base. Coincidentally, he had extra work there today with Stubby Clapp.
Spent entire down time in Panama with family. Worked out alone except when taking live BP with Jaime Barria.
They had pregame talk today and practiced bunt squeeze play today. Feels it is a strong part of his game. Big part of extra inning rule. Each team will play to its strength and if other team bunts, they will be ready.
Played defense with Schrock off and on since 2018. Push each other.
Mike Shildt is hoarse from allergies.
Reyes played catch today and will tomorrow. Will evaluate from there and see how he recovers. Will be a couple of days before he throws a pen. It would be a real challenge for him to be ready by opening day. Wouldn’t be fair to him. Too early to say what they will do, but to face hitters and play in sim games, it would be easier in Springfield. Can’t yet say that is what will happen. He needs to build up for what next year looks like, but if he is throwing well and looks good, which they expect, they could get him there (with St. Louis). Role will depend on the plan how he will be used.
Cabrera was cleared. Played catch. Same basic situation as Alex. Shildt said about the two being out, “It was a hard gig, man.” He kept in touch with both. It was a tough setback for them. Nice to have them here.
Sanchez has cleared and sent to Springfield. (I am confused why he was put on the IL vs. just optioned out. I will clarify tomorrow.)
Gio is there. Not cleared today. Not sure why. Has been throwing on his own. Will make determination on him when he clears. Even though on IL today, could still be eligible to be active on opening day. (This suggests he is on the COVID IL, not the standard 10 day.)
Montero is still in the process. Not yet cleared.
Sunday intrasquad starts at 1:15 p.m. Flaherty vs. Gant plus seven relievers. Seven innings planned. Sosa will start at 2B, Schrock at 3B, but there will be an infield carousel. Brad Miller getting more in-game swings.
Woodford and Oviedo were given their first inning to pitch, but then were put in tough situations. They were good about it. Thought the situational hitting against them was good. Oviedo a little frustrated in second inning, but strong in third. Ball came out good. Woody was more in attack mode this time, more crisp.
Lineup ✅
Intrasquad Stream 🔜 https://t.co/5VUsLLPWKx pic.twitter.com/x2zlyOuhLz
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) July 19, 2020
Jack’s Mom, who earlier pushed on social media for the Cardinals to stream intrasquad games, has a new cause…
@Cardinals Cardinal Nation is interested in purchasing “fan & pet cutouts”. We have a wonderful opportunity to raise funds for charitable organizations within & for our STL community. The @Cardinals fan base is widespread. Let’s continue to lead & make a difference💗MamaFlare🌸
— Eileen Flaherty (@JackandGradyMom) July 19, 2020
It wouldn’t surprise me to see KK lead the team in saves this season and Carlos lead the rotation in K’s.
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