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bad pitchers givign lots of innings that are bad isnt helpful
I don’t think bad pitchers can get to 180 or 190 innings because if they are really that bad they will get yanked early in the game.
The only reason Waino got the innings he got last year was because he was on his “riding off in the sunset tour” and the season was already tanked.
“I want Yamamoto too but so do some other teams. If you put all your eggs into one basket to get him and then you don’t, then we end up with just Lynn and Gibson, then you basically get nothing.”
I see what you’re saying, Willie — but what this basically translates to, is that Sonny Gray (and the Lynn & Gibson signings for that matter) is a panic move. And panic moves usually end in disaster.
Other notable panic moves: Dexter Fowler, Greg Holland, Marcell Ozuna, Willson Contreras.
Ask yourself why the Padres want to trade Soto.
Because they had to take a $50M loan last year to make payroll. They were WAY overextended and are now desperate to shed payroll.
While I will believe it when I see it Mo does like these leverage moves. It is how he got Arenado.
Sure, it’s money and you think the Cardinals want an outfielder they don’t need for money they aren’t willing to pay for what they do need?
Don’t believe what Morosi says.
I don’t know if these were so much panic moves, as leverage moves (though Lynn does seem like a panic move).
Montgomery won’t sign until after Yamamato is off the board – he is a Boras client.
If you’ve read about Lugo recently, you know he is relishing the demand for his services. He wasn’t going to be a quick sign, either.
They can still try to upgrade from Mikolas & Matz and then trade them (as uncharacteristic of the Cardinals as that would be).
Mo indicated they were going to be active in the trade market and they were early in the offseason. There is time to surprise us.
Also, they got Arenado basically for free for the first couple of years. They won’t get that kind of deal from the Padres.
Soto is likely to get $30 million in arbitration. No way the Cardinals want that.
Soto is likely to get $30 million in arbitration. No way the Cardinals want that.
With the current state of the team, I agree.
Now, if they do get some rotation upgrades, are able to trade for quality relievers and can unload Contreras, Mikolas & Matz, then maybe.
Bob Reed – I see Matz and Brett Cecil as panic moves, also, but with less dollars wasted. With Matz they were committed to finding a left-handed starter and Matz was all they could find, and with Cecil they were committed to finding a left-handed reliever and Cecil was all they could find. So they panicked and signed each of them at the time.
It’s open season for hot stove talk, so here’s my thoughts on this Sonny Gray signing….
– This signing, along with the Lynn and Gibson signings, show that the Cardinals are not going to sign any unknown quantities. Everyone knows what to expect from Gray, Lynn, and Gibson, and that’s what the Cardinals and their fan base are going to get. So with that, we can scratch Glasnow and Manoah off the list of possible signings, and we should be suspicious of rumors involving the Cardinals and Cease, Snell, Bieber and every other pitcher with a question mark attached to their resume.
– A rotation of thirty-something pitchers tells us that the Cardinals are going to maintain their ‘build from within’ philosophy. None of the pitchers in this new rotation are going to block Hence, Roby, Hjerpe, Graceffo, Bedell or Rajcic for very long, if at all. And if Hence is the organization’s top pitching prospect, he is not going anywhere until he gets the call to join the MLB team.
– Given the Cardinals’ conservative approach to this offseason so far, it seems highly, highly unlikely that they will ‘go all in’ on Yamamoto.
– Now that the Cardinals have established a satisfactory rotation, they are no longer desperate for starting pitching. So possible trade partners like the Mariners, White Sox, and Yankees will be more likely to engage in talks with the Cardinals on an equitable level. We’ll see.
I think Mo will make a strong bid for Yamamoto. He won’t outbid everybody. But maybe we’ll get him anyway. I think BDW will be surprised if he actually has to write those checks.
I have no idea if the Cardinals are pursuing Soto, but as I stated a day or two ago, they definitely want to sell tickets. Even the Cardinals front office is smart enough to know that 2023 was an epic disaster that is going to kill them at the box office if they don’t do something big.
I find it interesting that a guy having his best season after developing a new pitch is always referred to as over the hill rather than ascending.
Best I can tell, the youngest member of the projected 5 man for the ’24 season will be Steve Matz at 33 years of age. Lynn, Gibson and Mikolas will all be well beyond 35 on opening day and Gray just turned 34 a couple of weeks ago. In any event, I can’t recall a Cardinal rotation that didn’t contain at least one SP’er who was still in his 20’s. Carpenter, Tudor and Andujar were all younger than any current projected member of the ’24 5-man when they became Cardinals. Carpenter and Andujar were both 28 and Tudor was 31. The current state of affairs brings to mind the Redskins of the early ’70’s…Haha!
I guess, if the Cardinals would acquire Soto, we would have Soto in LF, Nootbaar in CF, and Walker in RF. With that outfield defense, our rotation’s cumulative ERA would likely go up by a full run. I think this Soto rumor amounts to nothing more than somebody manipulating the media so as to generate interest in a Soto trade.
BTW, Walker has not been getting much love around here lately, but IMO, he still has the potential for one day becoming the face of the franchise, just not as an outfielder.
In my opinion, if it comes down to money, nobody is going to outbid Detroit for Yamamoto.
They’ve had payrolls over $200 million in the past. After acquiring Canha and signing Maeda, have they roughly $50 million on the books for 2024. The Maeda signing may have been because of the report last week that he prefers to play with another Japanese player (though I read something yesterday that it was erroneous, and he merely indicated he is willing to play with another Japanese player).
Now, if Mo stands pat the rest of the way, think of all those prospects we will acquire at the trade deadline when we trade ALL FIVE starting pitchers!!!
I think Walker has played outfield for a a year and a half so he should improve some, don’t think he will ever be much more than an average defender.
I would bet he improves quite a bit at the plate next year and he was pretty solid for a rookie this past year.
I don’t see anyway they could afford Soto unless they trade Goldschmidt for him
Rumor flying about Matz being on the market.
$25 million a year for a starter isn’t chump change. They still haven’t gone over the 90 mil threshold for a contract. So that streak is still alive. Lol
My concern is they go cheap on the pen now that the money is spent. We shall see what happens. Still can make a couple deals but it appears bowties holiday shopping is complete.
Short term deals is what they wanted and they had to overpay a bit to get what they wanted.
What concerns me is that Gray has only pitched over 135 innings one time in the last three years. If he stays healthy he will be a fine addition. If not, well, Mo and Marmol may as well start packing their bags.
r/Esteemed Rat
Sigh yet another over the hill sp added to the staff and a big time $$ for sp coming off career year…betting it doesn’t go well for the birds. Adding all these old guys is a major recipe for disaster next year and while a minor upgrade over the starting rotation from last year, they might pass the Pirates in the division but that is the only team they are better than right now. What a crap show of a disappointing offseason so far…
In my opinion, if it comes down to money, nobody is going to outbid Detroit for Yamamoto.
The Mets could do it.
I have no idea if the Cardinals are pursuing Soto, but as I stated a day or two ago, they definitely want to sell tickets. Even the Cardinals front office is smart enough to know that 2023 was an epic disaster that is going to kill them at the box office if they don’t do something big.
Problem is so far all they have done is add old SP who while one was good last year he isn’t that good every year and will not be anywhere near that good next year and then added 2 bad sp’s who gave alot of innings who cares since they were not good….So far what the cards have done will do the opposite of doing something big to sell tickets…..
It appears that every move has been designed to sign Yamamoto. The big lugs to cover innings. A vet of the same size to compare notes with.
Matz is definitely tradable. The Mets were greatly disappointed he didn’t re-sign.Problem is so far all they have done is add old SP who while one was good last year he isn’t that good every year and will not be anywhere near that good next year and then added 2 bad sp’s who gave alot of innings who cares since they were not good….So far what the cards have done will do the opposite of doing something big to sell tickets…..
My comments were in regards to them supposedly having interest in Soto, which we don’t know if true or not.
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