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This new thread is for discussion about the Cardinals payroll. If people have done analysis posted on other threads, please copy it here. Thanks.
Here is the payroll info I posted back on October 3.
Goldy- 26
Carp- 18.5
Mikolas- 17
Fowler- 16.5
A. Miller- 12
CMart-11.7
DeJong- 4.16
Kim- 4
Hudson- .6
Gallegos- .6
O’Neill- .6
Webb- .6
Edman- .6
Helsley- .6
Cabrera- .6
Ponce- .6
Gomber- .6
Knizer- .6
Carlson- .6That totals 116.47 million.
Gant- Arb 2 (2M)
Hicks- Arb 1 (2M)
Flaherty- Arb 1 (5M)
Brebbia- Arb 1 (1M)
Bader- Arb 1 (2M)
Reyes- Arb 1 (2M)I am guessing at those numbers but that totals 14M which brings our overall total to 130.47 million.
Then you have Wong’s option at 12.5M. That would bring the overall total to $142.97 million.
Then you have the free agents of Yadi, Waino, Wieters, and Brad Miller.
Let’s say we bring Yadi back at 12M and Waino back at 8M.That gives a grand overall total of $162.97 million.
In order to make many moves the Cardinals would have to move some payroll. Could they move Wong? CMart? A. Miller? Maybe, who knows?
The other thing to consider is when will MLB know if fans will be allowed next year? That is a crucial piece of information when planning the budget. We don’t know when a vaccine will be approved and when it will be distributed. It could be anywhere from January 2021 to July 2021 or later. Or maybe only a portion of fans will be allowed to enter, say 1/3 capacity. That would help revenue some but not enough. A lot of unanswered questions still remain.
As for saving money…After Fowler’s halfway decent year do you think he would attract any interest in a trade, where we eat any of the salary?
I feel like with Leake we did that kind of move where we eat some money to bring something back.
with Carp’s season I am not sure how he or his money could be moved without eating it or including a very nice prospect, which doesn’t seem the type of thing Mo has done.
Though as i proposed somewhere else, the angels may prefer a somewhat defensively flexible expensive piece as opposed to Pujols who is not (at least at a position they already dont have a backlog of)
CMart, Wong, maybe Miller i think would all have potential of moving…though i am not sure we would get good value on any of them compared to their contracts
plan xyz:
If Wong is allowed to walk it costs 1mil buyout, saving 11.5mil of his 12.5mil 2021 salary.
If Yadi is allowed to walk it’s saves 12mil (est.)
If Adam is allowed to walk it saves 8mil (est.)That’s 31.5mil not spent on bringing our FA’s or club options back. That’s the easy way to create financial flexibility, but likely not the popular way, or even Mo’s way. TBD.
That pretty much sums it up JJ.
Oh they could clear some payroll by trying to offload Miller and CMart but I don’t know how much interest there would be in those two.
It is really a shame the front office has let our payroll get into this kind of a mess. We have way too many unproductive contracts holding us back. Giving out big contracts to aging players is usually a bad idea. All you can hope for is that there were lessons learned.
VEB with a couple of payroll articles which sum up what many of us have been talking about.
https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2020/10/9/21508309/updating-the-cardinals-payroll-matrix-2021-2023
Interesting articles “gscottar”! I do agree that payrolls will be under pressure In 2021 given the overall finances of owner. As the second article points out, owners took a hit this year and face a lot of uncertainty going into 2021.
I have to think the Front Office needs to get creative. Is it possible to Trade or restructure some of the guaranteed money? Can you renegotiate Wong option? Does it make sense to hold off signing Free agents (Wainright and Molina) to determine where the market is going?
Finally, ownership may need to dig into the pocket Book to avoid losing talented young players in arbitration.
After the arb estimates have come out from MLBTR, I have the payroll around $160M with the assumption that Molina and Waino are re-signed (at $14M & $8M respectively)
Harrison Bader – $1.2MM / $1.7MM / $1.2MM
John Brebbia – $800K / $800K / $800K
Jack Flaherty – $2.2MM / $3.0MM / $2.2MM
John Gant – $1.5MM / $1.9MM / $1.5MM
Jordan Hicks – $900K / $900K / $900K
Alex Reyes – $1.0MM / $1.2MM / $1.0MMMiddle number is what matters.
I review and analyze estimates from @mlbtraderumors for 2021 player salaries for the six #stlcards eligible for arbitration. One case may be sticky and one has been questioned by some, but I predict that all six will remain with the team. (free) https://t.co/HgGdedITcb pic.twitter.com/oqyd6eE5Xj
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) October 16, 2020
Chances are the Cards will offer all six arb players. I was speculating that if one was going to be non-tendered Brebbia would be the most likely but if the team can solve their roster crunch while keeping him that would be the smart move.
PadsFS, looking through those numbers, Flaherty’s figure stands out as being very low. Are they figuring that arb salaries will be depressed due to the revenue hit? Looking back, Michael Wacha got just under 3M in 2017 and he wasn’t within a mile of Flaherty as a pitcher, plus was injured a lot.
The arb process uses old school stats that heavily weigh playing time. Flaherty is behind Wacha entering arb by 7 in GS, 82 in IP and the biggie is Wacha with 10 more wins. I know, but that’s how they do it, and MLBTR’s model is adjusted to what the process values.
I think 3mil is low too, so imagine how Flaherty views it.
Mark Saxon is speculating that the Cardinals may be cutting the player payroll for 2021. He has no new news or quotes, but is just reading the tea leaves.
The only way I could see the team appreciably cutting payroll would be to not resign Yadi or Waino, restructure Wong’s deal or trade away salary and get no players in return. While I’d be fine with standing pat for 2021 with basically the same team as 2020, fans will not so I’d expect less fans in the seats even if they are allowed back in next season.
After reading that article I came away thinking that Saxon hadn’t put as much thought into it as some on this board have. I am not saying his overall premise is wrong but I think he is short on details. I guess there are only so many words you can fit into an article though.
If his prediction comes true then I guess we can discontinue all of these threads we have concerning who we need to acquire to improve the offense. Sorry cranny.
We can acquire some players, gscottar by –
1.) Unloading some payroll via Yadi, Waino, Wong, etc. and adding a player like Brantley or Murphy, etc.
2.) Trade some young pitching for a MLB ready bat. Like the O’Neill deal.
We can acquire some players, gscottar by –
1.) Unloading some payroll via Yadi, Waino, Wong, etc. and adding a player like Brantley or Murphy, etc.
2.) Trade some young pitching for a MLB ready bat. Like the O’Neill deal.
I would be VERY surprised to see Yadi sign elsewhere.
I think the only way Waino isn’t back here next season is if he retires.
Unloading Wong would be a mistake. He is a glue type core player on this team. We don’t need to screw up our defense. I bet if you took an anonymous poll of our entire pitching staff asking them if getting rid of Wong would be a good idea you would get zero votes.
The decision on Wong’s option is imminent. I believe it will be exercised. In fact, I would be amazed if it is not.
I think it will be also. The only question is will they try to re-negotiate it later into a longer term deal or leave it as is.
The financial situation is obviously more concerning than I imagined.
Wong has been let go. Mo expects the player budget to be reduced, citing the revenue decline. Won’t say how much, but Wong was one of the few choices that gave them “immediate flexibility”. He also acknowledged the additional flexibility with money coming off the books in 2022.
While Mo said the door is open with Wong, he later said that he expects Edman to get a chance at second base. But nothing is for sure, he advised.
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