Our Younger OFers

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  • #132189
    Avatarbccran
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    Lots of pressure on the pitchers.

    #132201
    Avatarmudville
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    In defense of our FO, if the quarantine hadn’t been ordered, they might have been able to trade for a proven outfielder before the end of ST. There was still time.
    Also, supposedly, a trade for Arenado was in the works. I thought that if we acquired Arenado, Carpenter would have moved to left. The offense would have been better whether Carpenter was productive in LF, or not. Also, Lindor might still get traded although the Cardinals don’t seem to match up with the Indians very well, IMO.

    #132203
    Avatarbccran
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    In a trade scenario, would look for an outfielder from a low budget team who’s several years away from getting very expensive.

    #132212
    Avatargscottar
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    In defense of our FO, if the quarantine hadn’t been ordered, they might have been able to trade for a proven outfielder before the end of ST. There was still time.
    Also, supposedly, a trade for Arenado was in the works.

    I don’t recall any legitimate evidence that either of those things were in the works to happen. I think this organization planned to go with what they had, covid or no covid.

    #132222
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I think that rather than saying it was all about the money given to Fowler, perhaps the Cards were willing to give a real shot to one of the guys who were highly rated and hadn’t yet gotten a shot. The Cards have two guys who were or are top 50 prospects in O’Neill and Carlson. They have Bader, who’s shown an elite glove, even if the bat has been unsteady. They’ve got Thomas, who flashed some solid play in St Louis last year when he got to play. Edman looked solid in his time in the OF as well, so he’s an option if needed. They had to move three guys in Jmart, Arozarena and Garcia this off season, who probably could have been useful parts of the team in some way, just to declutter to the point they got.

    So even though I sort of expected to see a signing like Calhoun or Dickerson to stabilize the outfield with some experience, I can see why they’d choose to go with the guys they have. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the outfield be O’Neill-Bader-Carlson by the end of the year and see it be one of the better outfields in the league for several years.

    #132224
    AvatarDsFan
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    I believe management feels there are some real sleeper OF prospects in the minors.About 2 years out. Check out the short season stats from 2019.

    #132236
    Avatarbccran
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    They have a clutter at 3B now –
    Gorman, Montero, Walker, Nunez, and Mendoza. Third basemen normally have good enough arms to play the outfield, which means several of them may be eventually converted. Then add Torres into the mix. Look perhaps for an outfield of Carlson, Walker, Montero, and Torres some day.

    #132239
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Mendoza was already moved to shortstop.

    #132240
    Avatarbccran
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    Thanks. Mediocre prospect.

    #132244
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Just curious. If you think he is mediocre, then why would you list him as part of the blockage at the position? FWIW, I agree he isn’t in the same prospect caliber as the others you mentioned. My point is that considering the other four range from the top of the system to not having played a professional game, maybe there isn’t all that much “clutter” at the position. True that if Montero doesn’t pick it up, Gorman will catch him, but the other two shouldn’t be in each other’s way for awhile.

    P.S. Montero is considered to be a first base candidate if he is later moved off third. Haven’t heard anything about OF, but you never know. The DH is also going to help.

    #132246
    AvatarCardinals27
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    Mendoza to me is decent prospect as a utility player. He also looked like a good fielder. And although he may not hit for power, he seems likely to hit for decent average. It’s a shame Covid19 struck, as this would have been a important year for him. He may have gotten some playing time at multiple infield postions at Memphis. But we will never know.
    I saw Robertson play shortstop about a dozen times, and he seems out of position there. Seems like he didn’t have a great arm or an accurate arm. He made 3 or 4 errors while I was watching him. And his bat certainly isn’t that exciting either.

    #132257
    Avatarbccran
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    I guess I included Mendoza because I heard at ST that there were some in the Cards organization who said “don’t forget about Mendoza” when there was a discussion about third basemen.

    Wherever they end up (and whenever they end up), I’m excited about Carlson, Gorman, Montero, Walker, Torres, Fletcher, Nunez, Winn, Jones, etc. Best group of position player overall talented athletes I’ve seen in the system in a long time.

    #132281
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    bccran said:

    there were some in the Cards organization who said “don’t forget about Mendoza”

    Interesting choice of words since Mendoza was invited to March camp, yet is not among the current 45 in St. Louis. Maybe he will still be added, but as of now, he stands out as the only Memphis position player not in camp.

    #132284
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    I remember in the past after saying Mendoza was more than capable defensively at SS being highly criticized with people citing the fact that if was capable he would be playing there.

    #132286
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    At this point, we don’t know much about Mendoza at short. He was there in January instructional camp and the little bit of spring training, but minor league camp never started. So he has yet to play any meaningful time there in real games.

    DeJong proved the move from third to short is possible, even if quite uncommon. But my guess is that this is broadening Mendoza as a utility player, not to position him as a serious candidate to replace DeJong one day.

    #132292
    Avatarbccran
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    When one talks to people in the Cardinals organization during Spring Training, all sorts of topics can come up. When you ask someone about the queue at 3B with Montero, Gorman, and Nunez and the person responds “don’t forget about Mendoza, he’s got talent” – you tend to absorb that. Whether Mendoza is appearing in games or not. It makes no difference.

    #132406
    Avatarbccran
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    Paul Goldschmidt is under full contract at 1B through 2024. Straight compensation at $26 million per year, with a few incentive bonuses added in on top. So when people talk about Montero possibly moving over there, I scratch my head.

    It means that whoever wins the regular 3B spot, the others could very well be funneled into the outfield, competing over time with young outfielders on the rise. Three of four – Montero. Gorman, Nunez, and Walker – competing with Bader, O’Neill, Carlson, Thomas, Williams, Capel, Torres, Fletcher, Jones, etc. Should be interesting. My guess is that some day Carlson, Walker, and Montero will win out.

    And by the way, I still think that Carlson, Dean, and Ravelo give us our best hitting OF in the shortened 2020 season.

    #132407
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Paul Goldschmidt is under full contract at 1B through 2024. Straight compensation at $26 million per year, with a few incentive bonuses added in on top. So when people talk about Montero possibly moving over there, I scratch my head.

    Possibly Goldy becomes the DH after Carpenter moves on. Injuries also happen. There are any number of reasons why Montero might eventually become the 1B. He could also end up in LF or as DH, himself.

    #132410
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    bccran said:

    And by the way, I still think that Carlson, Dean, and Ravelo give us our best hitting OF in the shortened 2020 season.

    Chances are pretty good that we will never know…

    #132421
    Avatarbccran
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    Those may be the chances, BW, but you never know about these things. Right now they have a strike out machine in LF and
    a .205 hitter with a .680 OPS in centerfield. That’s not going to work, especially in a season shortened by
    102 games.

    #132423
    Avatarmudville
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    IMO, there are more reasons why Carlson, Dean, and Ravelo could be starting in the outfield, than reasons they they could not. All of these players have excellent minor league track records, although it will be a big surprise because nobody else that I know of has suggested that that could happen.

    #132427
    Avatarbccran
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    AAA OPS stats –

    Carlson – 1.099 (very few PAs)
    Dean – .944
    O’Neill – .893
    Ravelo – .821
    Thomas – .814
    Bader – .810
    Williams – .756

    O’Neill is going to be interesting to watch. Going to try to cut down on his Ks and become more of a contact hitter while at the same time retaining his power.

    #132434
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    How come small sample size result for Carlson at Memphis is ok to cite, but not for Thomas in MLB? 😉

    #132439
    Avatarbccran
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    Because the stats are only AAA stats, BW. Trying to stay on the same page.

    #133499
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I had put the following on another thread, but realized it was better placed here, so I moved it. Interested in your opinions…

    I have heard some argue that a year of Carlson should not be wasted on part of this 60-game season. But instead, the Cardinals should wait until into the 2021 season to bring him up. (Remember he has just 18 games of experience at Triple-A.)

    I would be interested in reader perspective on this – particularly from those who consider 2020 a lost, worthless season. If so, then why burn a year of Carlson to play in a season that does not matter, anyway?

    (Yes, this would be clear service time manipulation, with a greater than usual motivation to consider it.)

    P.S. If I did not explain this clearly, let me know and I will go into more detail on what I am talking about.

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