Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Our Younger OFers
- This topic has 312 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 4 months ago by bccran.
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November 20, 2020 at 10:54 pm #147859bccranParticipant
Tough not to criticize when the results simply aren’t there, Brian. We went into 2020 with two slots in the outfield filled by unproven players. And our situation hasn’t changed, except that Carlson has arrived. We now have an aging and declining right fielder who has stats nowhere near what a RFer should have. A budding star in CF. And 3 stumbling guys to try to fill the slot in LF. Where I think you will find the Cards getting a solid veteran in the off season.
November 21, 2020 at 7:20 am #147864“Our Young Outfielders”
Play them. No more Ozuna blocking Arozarena scenarios. “That’s on me” is not what you want to hear from Mo.
Feels like Baders time as a Cardinal is getting short.
November 21, 2020 at 9:39 am #147877I agree. Play them. But, also, keep trying to acquire a promising outfield prospect. I hope MO doesn’t clog up the roster with an uninspiring retread.
IMO, Arozarena is still unproven. This wouldn’t be the first time that a rookie came on red hot, then cooled way down after the adrenalin rush settled down and the league figured out how to pitch to him. For now, I still like the trade.
November 21, 2020 at 9:53 am #147879This may hurt the clubs chances in 2021. However, I believe the Cards need to play the guys they have to determine what they really have with O’Neill, Thomas and Williams. I think the Front Office has a good idea of what they have in Bader – good to great defender with holes in his offensive game.
The question becomes can they get enough offense out of the other two outfield spots so they can afford to keep Bader in center.
November 21, 2020 at 10:16 am #147881Once fowler is off the books, I was thinking carlson projected to be in right if memory serves me correctly. I think the hope would be O’neil comes on and takes the left field job, Bader holds down center, and Carlson in right from 2022 forward.
November 21, 2020 at 10:31 am #14788314NyquisTParticipantJust for some fun I went back to my 140 pages of comments which goes back to mid-season of 2017. Notice the date. I mentioned six “Young Outfielders”…. four are gone… as seasons go by the names change but the results remain about the same. Right now only two remain… Bader is still very IFFY and Carlson seems to be the guy who will come through for us.
July 5, 2017 at 10:08 am in reply to: Minor league thrmeead – Tue Jul 4#26656REPLY
14NyquisT:
Sierra is ready, Bader is very close to ready, Mercado still DLed(needs to be watched), JAGarcis and Arozarena are at least one year away. The guy to keep an eye on is 18 year old Dylan Carlson, who the organization challenged with a position at Peoria. He started slow but is now showing some good positive numbers and patience at the plate. I give him possibly ’20 as ETA in St.Louis.
November 21, 2020 at 11:06 am #147887Poll:
Of Bader, Carlson, O’Neill, Thomas and Williams….
1) Rank them descending by best CF defense
2) Rank them descending by best RF arm
November 21, 2020 at 11:17 am #147888bccranParticipantO’Neill – .173/.261/.360/.621
Thomas – .111/.200/.250/.450
Fowler – .233/.317/.389/.706
Bader – .226/.336/.443/.779
Carlson – .200/.252/.363/.616Ladies and Gentlemen – your 2020 St. Louis Cardinals outfield. And some of you want to go into 2021 without adding someone?
November 21, 2020 at 12:26 pm #147896Poll:
Of Bader, Carlson, O’Neill, Thomas and Williams….
1) Rank them descending by best CF defense
2) Rank them descending by best RF arm
CF Defense:
1. Bader
2. O’Neill
3. Thomas
4. Carlson
5. WilliamsI think Carlson projects as a corner OF. The only reason we play him in CF is because Bader can’t hit consistently.
I am really not sure about RF arm.
November 21, 2020 at 2:09 pm #147902Poll:
Of Bader, Carlson, O’Neill, Thomas and Williams….
1) Rank them descending by best CF defense
2) Rank them descending by best RF arm
1. Bader, Thomas, O’Neill, Carlson, Williams
2) O’Neill, Bader, Carlson, Thomas, Williams (he’s the only one I don’t know so I put him last by default)
November 21, 2020 at 2:10 pm #147903And some of you want to go into 2021 without adding someone?
Yes. They’ll be the best defensive outfield in the majors, especiall if they purge Fowler and make him a backup/DH.
Also, three of the five are locks to hit better than this weird year, probably by around 200 points of OPS each. Bader and Fowler may be about the same as 2020.
November 21, 2020 at 3:31 pm #147912So Carlson profiles best in LF among our options, Bader in CF, O’Neill’s arm in RF. Thomas ability to play CF well fits the roster well as a 4th outfielder. The 2020 postseason alignment, with Fowler in RF, still.
November 21, 2020 at 3:35 pm #147913bccranParticipantIs signing Ozuna or Brantley going to mess this up?
November 21, 2020 at 3:49 pm #14791425, I hadn’t considered the Fowler DH option, which would open up outfield starts significantly. Good thought, currently there is more depth behind Fowler than there is behind Carpenter at 3B.
November 21, 2020 at 4:30 pm #147919bccranParticipantO’Neill career –
2018-2020
171 games
450 PAs
.229/.291/.422/.713
K rate – 34%Bader career –
2017-2020
348 games
1.058 PAs
.234/.322/.399/.721
K rate – 29%November 21, 2020 at 9:01 pm #147924bccran
…. A budding star in CF…
bccran, I never thought I would see you call Bader a budding star.
November 21, 2020 at 9:21 pm #147925bccranParticipantI think you know I’m referring to Carlson, Forsch. Bader could be an asset to the Cards if he gets out of his own way.
November 22, 2020 at 11:40 am #147937Carlson has much more value as a corner OF. We need a plus defender in CF.
November 22, 2020 at 11:41 am #147938Is signing Ozuna or Brantley going to mess this up?
No because we won’t be signing either one.
November 22, 2020 at 12:25 pm #147939bccranParticipantI wouldn’t rule out anything, Scotty.
November 22, 2020 at 1:15 pm #147940I’ll rule it out. If Mo signs a big money, older free agent outfielder this off-season, he should be fired. There’s 0 reason to spend big money on what would be a very short term fix at best. This team is not a WS contender, with or without those guys.
November 22, 2020 at 1:30 pm #147941If Mo signs a big money, older free agent outfielder this off-season, it will only be because Bill DeWitt Jr. thinks it is a good idea. I guess if it fails later, he could fire Mo, anyway, though.
While no move of any kind can technically be ruled out until it does not happen, one should be realistic about the chances of it actually occurring.
To be specific about the two free agents cited, here are their new contracts as estimated by MLB Trade Rumors:
#4 MLB free agent Ozuna – 4 years/$72 MM
#13 free agent Brantley – 2 years/$28 MMI am very open to any evidence that even hints that the Cardinals will be shopping in those aisles this winter.
November 22, 2020 at 2:31 pm #147942bccranParticipant1.) The only reason I mention Ozuna is because they know him and that’s their modus. With the exception of Carlson and Gorman, a big bat within the organization is way far off. Maybe Walker.
2.) Brantley, a 34 year old in a market with team’s revenues way down, may be a lot more affordable than 2/$28.
November 22, 2020 at 3:02 pm #147943We shall see what the real signings turn out to be, but MLBTR puts a lot of thought and research into their estimates. I will go with them until proven otherwise.
In fact, the examples we have so far of their estimates vs. actual salaries for 2021 were all too low, not the other way around:
Robbie Ray – $6 MM estimate, got $8 MM actual
Marcus Stroman – 4 yr/$68 MM estimate ($17 MM/yr), $18.9 MM qualifying offer accepted
Drew Smyly – $5 MM estimate, got $11 MM actualThis very early data suggests MLBTR may have taken the 2020 financial losses into too great of an account.
November 22, 2020 at 3:04 pm #147944I have high hopes for Eluheris Montero, and I’m with those who haven’t yet given up on O’Neill and Thomas. IMO, O’Neill is still developing and Thomas really hasn’t gotten his chance yet. I hope the are able to sign one of the elite shortstops that are free agents next offseason. Of course, a lot changes if Sosa emerges as a viable shortstop or second baseman.
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