November 22, 2020 at 3:08 pm #147945
On the suggestion that because the Cardinals know Ozuna, they are more likely to re-sign him – what examples can you share of this being their supposed “modus”?
I cannot think of a single major player to leave the Cardinals in the Mo years and come back later to contribute in a significant way. I don’t count journeyman guys like Matt Adams and I certainly wouldn’t label Luke Gregerson a success. Please tell me who I am missing.
It feels like some of these thoughts get thrown out as facts when there is seemingly nothing to support them…
Bottom line, I see nothing in the team’s past behavior on a general basis, nothing in their prior experience with Ozuna (overall not positive) and nothing in their current financial situation (also not positive) to cause me to believe there is even a 1% chance he will be playing for the 2021 Cardinals. But yes, there is still a chance…November 22, 2020 at 3:40 pm #147946
As I’ve said multiple times, the Cardinals are partial to players they have come to know – what kind of teammate they are, how they interface with the GM and front office, the fans, people in the community, etc. I said nothing about bringing someone back. Just a partiality. So if the real Ozuna has now returned after his injuries, I see no reason why they wouldn’t consider him for a badly needed MOTO bat. Plus it wouldn’t be the first time that a player returned to the Cardinals.November 22, 2020 at 3:50 pm #147949
And as I and others have pointed out multiple times, the Cardinals did not appear to want Ozuna back. Why you stubbornly cling to the notion they like him and would want him back considering everything is nothing short of baffling.
The Cardinals need help on offense and they might add someone, but it isn’t going to be him for a number of reasons already stated (but disregarded).November 22, 2020 at 4:32 pm #147950
I truly don’t know why in the world you want to be so condescending on a peaceful Sunday afternoon, Brian. And comment on someone’s “stubbornness”. I have never said that the Cardinals would be pushing hard for Ozuna. Or even said there’s a strong probability that they will sign him. There’s very little chance of that. But what I have said is that I wouldn’t totally rule it out. They like players that they know. It’s my opinion. I have a right to express it. And I will.November 22, 2020 at 4:55 pm #147951
Of course, you can express your opinion. I get why you don’t rule it out. But considering it is such low odds, it seems to be getting an overly high level of discussion, both today and in recent weeks. Why not focus on players who seem to be a better fit for the team, instead?November 22, 2020 at 5:12 pm #147952
The 2020 Orioles outfield ranked 7th best of 30 teams, by brWAR, name one starting outfielder.
The 2020 Giants outfield ranked 8th of 30 teams, by brWAR, name one starting outfielder who isn’t Yaz’s grandson.
No-one knew these players as household names, but they produced, given the chance.November 22, 2020 at 5:13 pm #147953
For one reason, Brian, because several reporters on other sites say the Cardinals have interest in Ozuna. I’ll leave it at that.
The Cardinals need an experienced bad badly. Maybe you haven’t seen it, but I’ve posted a list of all the FA left fielders. And expressed my opinion on that list. At the top of my list was Brantley. He could be a short timer like Beltran and Berkman were. Which is where I think the Card are headed this off season. Another Brad Miller type or two. For the OF or 3B. Or both.November 22, 2020 at 5:22 pm #147954
OK, that is potentially very significant. I missed those multiple reporters who said the Cardinals have interest in Ozuna. Please direct me to their reports so I can get up to speed. I will be happy to learn from them, assuming they are credible sources. Thanks.
P.S. Thinking I missed major news, I went to MLB Trade Rumors, which is the most well-known aggregator of information, and I could find no mention of this. Even a general Google search came up dry as to any current connection.November 22, 2020 at 6:23 pm #147956
Watching 60 Minutes right now with my wife, followed by a Netflix movie. Will look it back up tomorrow.November 22, 2020 at 8:11 pm #147966
bccran, if Bader is starting, he is starting in CF. Carlson may not get 80 starts in CF.November 22, 2020 at 8:39 pm #147967
The problem with young outfielders is that they need years to develop. We traded Andy Van Slyke a year too early, but it is easy to forget he had played regularly for four years. It was hard to take Bernard Gilkey’s 30 homer 117 rbi season for pond scum, but Bernard had played regularly for five years.
We kept Ray Lankford, but he only had one decent season in his first four.November 23, 2020 at 7:22 am #147978
The problem is, neither Bader nor O’Neill can lay off the 4 seam at the letters. And they’re running out of time.November 23, 2020 at 9:15 am #147999
My point is that none of them are running out of time. They are running on time. We are running out of patience.
I admit we may not be able to win at the desired level with them producing at current rates, but over the next three years they could dramatically improve.
The Hall of Pretty Good (just below the Hall of Very Good) is filled with guys who eventually develop and have four or five seasons of excellent productivity. Think Ryan Ludwick etc…November 23, 2020 at 11:00 am #148020
DFA’d by BAL at 25 yrs old, non-tendered by the NYM at age 29, Justin Turner signed a minors deal with the LAD, with a 2014 ST invite, to compete for a utility infielder spot. He had accumulated 926 PA’s, a .684 ops and 8 HR. Now he’s a household name and MLBTR expects him to sign a 2/24mil contract for his ages 36 and 37 seasons. How’s that for a late bloomer?November 23, 2020 at 11:18 am #148021stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
The problem is, neither Bader nor O’Neill can lay off the 4 seam at the letters. And they’re running out of time.
The good thing, if you want to call it that, is that next season’s team is not going to win the NL or the World Series either way. So if you use 2021 with the expectation of finding out exactly what you have in O’Neill, Carlson and Thomas (I think the team knows what Bader is), it causes no harm. After 2021, you can enter the FA or trade market looking for that big bat in the OF or make a trade for a star 3B, or sign a free agent SS…maybe even two of the three. And if it turns out that O’Neill and Carlson are the stud corner OFers you’re looking for, then you have that set for three years plus and can focus on other areas. There should be flexibility next year that just isn’t there this off-season.November 23, 2020 at 12:23 pm #148029
All true, 25, but the Cardinals are committed to a team each year that can compete throughout the year and hopefully go far in the playoffs. At his age, I don’t think Bill Dewitt, Jr., wants to skip a year.November 23, 2020 at 12:24 pm #148030
If we could sign Turner to a 2/24 deal, I would hope we would do it in about 10 minutes. That would be an instant boost without really blocking anyone.November 23, 2020 at 12:30 pm #148031
“So if you use 2021 with the expectation of finding out exactly what you have in O’Neill, Carlson and Thomas, it causes no harm.”
Today, about 75% of our position player roster would be “sell low” candidates in a trade. Not only would STL find out exactly what we have in 2021 by playing our youth, but so would MLB, for any transactions next winter. We could spend 2021 raising the value of OUR roster, by committing to their playing time.November 23, 2020 at 12:32 pm #148032
Hard pass on TurnerNovember 23, 2020 at 12:35 pm #148035
Jj, why pass on Turner?November 23, 2020 at 12:37 pm #148037
Wong? Commitment to winning?
How many Gold Glove leadoff men get paid to go away by a club committed to winning?November 23, 2020 at 12:44 pm #148039
The ones with a switch hitting cheaper option who provides equal defense seemingly do.November 23, 2020 at 1:01 pm #148051
Exactly. Committed to to managing future $ losses.November 23, 2020 at 1:52 pm #148056
In the case of Turner, isn’t the second year in 2022 the main issue? (That looks past the immediate problem of a 2021 payroll increase of $12 MM in a year the team is planning to cut spending.)
$12 MM to pay him in his final year of two at age 37 might be money perhaps better used on younger, better players. The 2022 risk would be taken to make the 2021 team better. As has been discussed a lot already, to what length should they go to try to make 2021 better than it would be in steady state (bringing back Yadi and Waino)?November 23, 2020 at 4:06 pm #148069
Even on the first of two years, 2021, if they wouldn’t pay Wong $12 MM, would they pay Turner basically the same amount? Where do the salary cuts come from? Or would this preclude one of Waino and Yadi coming back?
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