Our Younger OFers

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  • #148072
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Now that this discussion has flowed to a new page, I want to remind bccran of his offer from yesterday – to share the details of the multiple reporters who have said that the Cardinals are currently interested in signing Ozuna. Thanks.

    #148077
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Nigel T wrote:

    The ones with a switch hitting cheaper option who provides equal defense seemingly do.

    Edman’s defense is equal to Wong’s? I must have missed Edman winning two gold gloves.

    #148097
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    I understand the thought that how can the Cardinals cut payroll when they pay Turner $12 million. What I don’t understand is why the Cardinals wouldn’t jump on an opportunity to vastly improve one of their weaknesses on offense, 3B.

    I am a little disappointed in not picking up Wong’s option. However, Edman can provide the same offensive production. In the case of Turner, he was almost as good as Goldschmidt last year (G-142 OPS+, T-135 OPS+) offensively and plays very good defense at 3B. When we can upgrade from a 77 OPS+ for Carpenter to Turner, I think that is a no-brainer at $12 million a year. Turner hits for a high average and doesn’t strike out a lot. As far as having him for 2 years, there is no guarantee that any of the 3B prospects will be ready for 2022. Plus, there may be a DH in the NL by then.

    With all of the money coming off the books after 2021, the Cardinals would still be able to upgrade the team for the 2022 season. I am not sure who the Cardinals could sign after 2021, other than one of the shortstops, that could possibly make as much difference as Turner could. I am willing to see how creative the Cardinals could be in getting Gorman’s bat in the lineup if he is ready for 2022. He might be the next Pujols in that regard.

    Bottom line: the Cardinals need to improve their offense. This is a good opportunity to do just that.

    #148099
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    They could improve the 2021 offense in other ways, as well. Turner isn’t the only fish in the sea.

    As I said, I would rather have the Cardinals spend the $12 MM in 2022 on a better player in his prime, not a 37-year old third baseman. Maybe Turner has two more good years in him, but maybe not. They are finally getting out from under the bad contracts on aging players, so why risk taking on another?

    We will have to agree to disagree on Turner. I would pass on two years and I don’t see the Cards paying for one. (Someone else will likely give him two years.)

    P.S. I wouldn’t rule out Gorman for 2022 by any stretch. Is there any reason to believe he couldn’t move as fast as Carlson? At the same pace as Carlson, Gorman would join St. Louis just far enough into the 2022 season to protect a year of service time – and he has the added benefit of 2020 Summer Camp, which could allow him to move even faster than Carlson.

    #148209
    AvatarNigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    If we were to acquire Lindor or one of the other SS giants, I could see Gorman working out at 2B. He has been a middle infielder most of his life.

    #148213
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    BW, we WILL have to agree to disagree about Turner.

    Signing Turner at $12 million per year for 2 years is a lot different than signing Carpenter to an $18.5 million per year extension for 2 years. Carpenter had a declining batting average with an increasing K rate at the time of his extension. While Carp had his best OPS+ of his career in 2018, it was based on a HR% that was 20% better than any other season he had up to that point. Turner has been very consistent in his production. He is a contact hitter who doesn’t strike out much while hitting around .300. Even accounting for some decline, he should still produce very well for just a 2 year commitment.

    #148224
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Why overpay ($$ or prospects) for an aging player in ’21? One player will not be able to take the Cards to the next level next season. See what we already have and then go for it in ’22. There’s a lot of talent in the organization that should be ready by then.

    #148227
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Turner might not be a good idea due to timing and the current busines/financial climate. However, he has exactly the type of bat and plate mentality the Cards lack and need. Perhaps his presence would have a significant impact on a few others. Sometimes these things are contagious. Maybe he can accomplish something the coaches can’t seem to do.

    #148228
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Sometimes these things are contagious.

    Considering the kerfuffle over Turner’s post World Series actions, perhaps this comment was intended to be a pun?

    Also, don’t discount how much playing in a lineup full of All Stars can inflate the stats of a given player. Turner in St Louis may not be the same as he was in LA.

    #148229
    Avatarmudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Gorman at 2B? I’d love to see 2B being held down by a power guy for a change, assuming that he’s average or better defensively.

    #148232
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Considering the kerfuffle over Turner’s post World Series actions, perhaps this comment was intended to be a pun?

    Lol, 25. Not my intention when I began keying it in, but I thought about it as soon as I finished the sentence. I wondered if somebody would have the same thought.

    Nobody plays in isolation, but I believe Turner’s bat plays well anywhere.

    BTW, nice use of “kerfuffle.” I’m sure CMart was bumfuzzled by all the fuss Turner generated until his presence at the Dominican gathering gained carfuffle status.

    #148237
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Turner is also supposed to be a great clubhouse guy.

    #148238
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    You have 4 proven and 4 unproven. Take Carp out of it for obvious reasons and you only have 3 in the lineup you can really count on as proven players.

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