Marcell Ozuna

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  • #112219
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    No…Ozuna-LF Bader or Arozarena-CF Carlson-RF

    #112222
    AvatarBw52
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    Game Card-Ozuna and Bumgarner..okay…now what about 3B..do you hope Carpenter returns to at least MLB average player or do you just split time with Edman and sit Carp versus LHP? What about the bullpen? Gallegos and Gant both wore down.Miller was streaky as hell.Helsley and Fernandez di okay as partial season rookies,Webb is just Webb-too wild.Brebbia is fine.deleone,mayers..meh.i expect mayers to get dropped from 40-man and Deleone to be non-tendered.With CMarinez getting shoulder surgery cleanup that adds another question mark to the SP.
    Flaherty
    Mikolas
    Hudson
    Poncedeleon
    Gomber?
    Gant ?Wainwright?
    So Cards still need to check some low cost options pitching wise or trade surplus OF for pitching.Nobody at AAA moves the needle.Best guys are at AA right now.

    #112226
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    I think there is a 40% chance he accepts the QO. Players are starting to figure out that going into free agency with draft pick compensation attached to you is not a good thing unless you are elite. Ozuna isn’t elite but he is still a good enough player to get some offers out there.

    He seems to want to stay so he may decide to accept the QO and the Cards would probably be fine with with having him on a one year deal although the $17.4M QO would hamper their ability to upgrade other areas of the team. I think there is almost zero chance they offer him a multi year deal so it is really going to come down to what he thinks he can get from other teams. I suspect there are some AL teams like the White Sox or Mariners that might have some interest.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    #112229
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    I would definitely put the QO on him. If he accepts, it would provide more value to the trade that brought him here. More production with not much commitment. If he declines it, we get a draft pick.

    #112233
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    Whether Ozuna stays or goes, I would hope there will be open competition between our young outfielders in 2020, and veterans. I would not guarantee Fowler, or Bader a starting job. I also would like to see Ravelo replace JMart, unless a DH is coming soon. Even then, Carp would probably be the DH, if he is hitting well.

    #112249
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Fowler’s value in 2019 extended beyond the numbers. He filled the gap in center field quite well when Bader could not stay in the bigs. Then he solidified the lineup at lead off the last six weeks or so of the season.

    Now there could be better options in 2020. Maybe Bader gets back closer to the 2018 version. O’Neill might take hold of a chance and do a 2017-Tommy Pham. Carlson might be ready.

    But as GC said, it would be best for Ozuna to take the QO. However, I do not recall a player who does what is best for themselves. They most always think there are greater riches elsewhere, and will shoot themselves in the foot in the hopes of getting a few more million.

    There are many examples of that, but Pujols is probably the one closest to the Cardinal organization that comes to mind. Albert tried to cover his mistake with the whole disrespected bit, rather than calling it what it was, business negotiations. Personalizing it helped him feel better about leaving, but that is a different topic.

    Marcel, read this and learn. Take the QO – chances are it will be better for you in the long run.

    #112270
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    Ravelo is nothing but a minor league back-up to Goldschmidt. The real back-up is Carpenter. I believe Ozuna ‘s new agent is Molina’s agent so that may help him take it. I don’t think he can do better than $17.9 million a year.

    #112298
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    With the glut of young promising outfielders in the system, how does one want Marcell back? Let him go. I wouldn’t mind seeing our newest poster’s (Lucky731) take on Marcell. Even though he’s 2-2 in the “thread started-thread taken down” department, I firmly believe that Lucky would rise to the occasion here talking Redbird baseball.

    #112301
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I’m not sure there is a real way for this to be a loss for the team. If you offer him the QO and he accepts, you’ve got a slugger who will probably be good for 30+ HR and stabilize LF until Carlson is ready for MLB. If he doesn’t accept, you accept your pick and hopefully get an acceptable LF from a combo of O’Neill and Arozarena until Carlson is ready.

    #112302
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    You are right stl25. The only issue with Ozuna accepting the $17.4 is that it could possibly hamper the Cards ability to spend elsewhere. When I say “hamper” we all know they can afford to spend up to the luxury tax line if they had to. I am talking about hampering their internal incremental payroll model that they seem married to.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    #112306
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    The offseason IMO should go like this:
    1. Ozuna accepts Q offer
    2. Sign Madison Bumgarner
    3. Everything else is internal

    #112310
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    I know that Arozarena is the AAA golden boy this season but, frankly, I haven’t seen enough of him at the major league level to put him as a starter. Now that could be easily rectifed in spring training but what I saw at bat late last season was as deer in the headlights. At this time, I don’t see him as a Ozuna replacement until he has more MLB time to show his stuff. I would hope ONeil can be traded as he is just another Bader with the bat – only worse. Contrary to what many posters and all the announcers seem to think, JMart plays a passable defense so don’t kill me with meaningless(to me) stats. When anybody can show me one time that WAR has been proven to be accurate, I will believe in stats. He is below average to be sure but sometimes there is a need to balance the offense and defense and one or the other will win out. In his case it is offense, one of the few to perform in the playoffs – when and where it counts.

    Speaking of stats, the playoff announcers were just full of them. Did you know that Ace Mulligan was the 32nd player to take a dump on toilet #3 in the NY Mets visitors clubhouse. That is typical of the garbage you hear these days. But I will leave that subject to those who live and die by the stats. No other sport that I know of burns up computers grinding out worthless nonsense.

    #112313
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I know that Arozarena is the AAA golden boy this season but, frankly, I haven’t seen enough of him at the major league level to put him as a starter. Now that could be easily rectifed in spring training but what I saw at bat late last season was as deer in the headlights. At this time, I don’t see him as a Ozuna replacement until he has more MLB time to show his stuff.

    Well, it’s pretty much a given that all young players have to “show their stuff” before they can really be counted on. Of course Randy is no guarantee to be good, but he’s got all the tools to do so. He certainly isn’t a K machine like some of our other OFers. O’Neill is a K machine but has good power and unlike Martinez, can actually play good defense. At some point, your proven vets just need to be cleared to let the youth have a chance. Who’s to say that Arozarena and O’Neill couldn’t have .800 OPSes with plus defense rather than the clown show of Ozuna and Jmart if they get a real chance to play? I’m just not in favor of letting a pure pinch hitter/DH play when the other guys have just a much potential with the bat, and much better defense to boot.

    #112317
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    I mistakenly referenced the QO as 17.4. It is actually 17.8 for 2020, which is a slight decrease from 2019, which is the first time it has ever dropped.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27823266/mlb-free-agent-qualifying-offer-price-drops-first

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    #112331
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    MM3, I know it does no good to use numbers with you, but your logic is full of holes.

    Yes, Martinez was good with the bat in very limited duty in the LCS. However, during the entire six-month 2019 regular season, he was a BELOW AVERAGE MLB hitter, with an OPS+ of 97. What would most base their assessment on – 373 plate appearances or his last 10?

    Further, Martinez’ offense has declined every year since 2016.

    You already acknowledged that his outfield defense is also “below average”. No one is going to disagree with that.

    So, why would a team with playoff aspirations want to give a starting job to a player who is both a below-average hitter and below-average fielder?

    Martinez is what he is. At least younger guys like Carlson, Arozarena and Thomas still have a chance to become more.

    (Rats, do us all a favor and pass on making more “goofball” comments. Please…)

    #112332
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    So, why would a team with playoff aspirations want to give a starting job to a player who is both a below-average hitter and below-average fielder?

    So does that mean that you feel Carpenter and Fowler don’t fit into the Card’s starting lineup plans in ’20? That is a refreshing thought.

    #112334
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Or three wrongs make a right?

    #112337
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    So does that mean that you feel Carpenter and Fowler don’t fit into the Card’s starting lineup plans in ’20? That is a refreshing thought.

    Except one of these three is different than the the other two. Can you guess the difference?

    Carp: owed $39 million
    Fowler: owed $33 million
    JMart: owed $2.125 million

    #112340
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    Yeah, but I just like having Jose Martinez around.

    #112341
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    CiF…. me too!

    #112343
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    The offseason IMO should go like this:
    1. Ozuna accepts Q offer
    2. Sign Madison Bumgarner
    3. Everything else is internal

    That could possibly happen except substitute Keuchel for Bumgarner.

    #112348
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    Everyone hoopes for a Madison Bungarner or Dallas Kuechel or jake Ododrizzi or Zack Wheeler etc;-what Cards will likely end up with is a Dan Straily or Jordan Lyles or Gio Gonzalez because of cost.

    #112349
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <Brian wrote: So, why would a team with playoff aspirations want to give a starting job to a player who is both a below-average hitter and below-average fielder?>

    Thanks Brian. You just described Matt Carpenter.

    #112352
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    Fowler, Martinez, Carpenter – all a question of what period you want to look. All 3 are above average hitters for their careers. The only below average seasons for Carpenter and Martinez was last season. I dont know if any of them will be above average next year but it is likely one or two of them will be – the question is which one?

    #112354
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    For me it has to be an LH pitcher.

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