May 16, 2018 at 10:07 am #52599
Luke Gregerson has a “shoulder injury” per reports. (Sure lets go with that)
John Brebbia has been recalled.May 16, 2018 at 10:11 am #52602gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
I have to consider this good news. Nothing personal against Gregerson but we might as well just have flushed $11M down the drain instead of signing him.May 16, 2018 at 12:01 pm #52615stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Looks to be a bad signing but maybe he can be of value in spots later. Slider looks good but you don’t see many 88 mph fastballs tricking anyone anymore.May 16, 2018 at 12:03 pm #52616
Now the reports are saying he has shoulder and elbow injury/pain. He’s probably headed for some kind of surgery. That’d be my guess.
If that’s the case I wonder if the FO could just release him?May 16, 2018 at 12:50 pm #52627May 16, 2018 at 12:51 pm #52628
BHC, please explain the benefit to be achieved by releasing Gregerson while injured. Thanks.May 16, 2018 at 4:42 pm #52679
Is he headed for surgery?
Will he be placed on 60-day dl?
If he requires surgery how long is he out?
Will he be able to pitch next season?
If no, why keep him in the roster to take up a roster space?May 16, 2018 at 4:53 pm #52680
If he’s out any less than a year and a half and we are still paying him, then wouldn’t we be better off to keep him in hopes that the fix fixes him?May 16, 2018 at 7:04 pm #52684PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
It used to be the case (or seemingly so) where most veteran players who came to St. Louis via trade or otherwise, stepped up their game as a Redbird. Doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. Change in team culture? The times? The fans? The money? Something else? Whatever it is, our Cards need to identify the problem and fix it.May 16, 2018 at 8:07 pm #52686mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Gregerson’s second year is a team option with a $1M buyout. This injury pretty much nixes that second year.May 16, 2018 at 10:18 pm #52690858booyahParticipantFree
Mudville! Where are you getting your info? His option is for 2020. Where if he pitches in 130 games in 2 years it auto kicks in or if he pitches in 60 games in 2019 it kicks for $6 million.
I don’t know who his agent is but must be the same as Randy Choate and Broxton. God it just makes me angry Bowtie got taken to the woodshed for possibly 3 years. Even if he’s shelved this season he could still find his way flailing into 60 games in 2019 and his option get picked up.May 17, 2018 at 6:27 am #52693PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
Back in the good ole’ days, White Sox owner, Charles Albert Comiskey, would have seen to it that Gregerson would have appeared in exactly 59 games… not 60. How times have changed. We never want to go back to those days, but maybe meeting somewhere in the middle in regards to these MLB contracts would be a good thing. From a fan’s standpoint, I think the game was much more enjoyable when the owners held the lion’s share of the upper hand of matters, instead of the players/agents. But that’s a 50 year old guy talking….it’s a new age.May 17, 2018 at 7:25 am #52697
PadsFS, your assessment is most logical and is almost certainly the path to be followed. Get him healthy and see what they really have. So far, they have a whopping 8 1/3 innings of track record from a possibly-injured pitcher.
BHC, teams have unlimited use of both the 10-day and 60-day DL. Further, those on the 60-day DL do not apply toward the 40-man, so if Gregerson is hurt long-term, he would not take up any extra roster space whatsoever. The money to pay him is committed, so releasing him now would be a very short-sighted move. Fortunately, teams do not make rash decisions based on emotion. If they did, Norris would be closing for another team right now with his salary paid by the Cardinals. There are no rational reasons to release Gregerson now.
858, patience, please! 😉May 17, 2018 at 8:58 am #5271114NyquisTParticipant
I think Pugs senses what others are feeling. That is the acquisitions of vet relievers that don’t seem to find success in the Redbird uniform. Recently Cecil, Gregerson, Holland and to some extent Leone have failed to equate performance and expectations. Norris has always been a mystery to me, going back to his Card-killer days. But right now, IMO he gets the fans confidence level up and that of the team. His mound presence just seems to be above those mentioned.
I don’t claim to be a fan of fixing the bullpen. I don’t get a good sense of the chemistry and usage. But what I’m seeing is a guy like Hicks come in and I feel that he’ll get his job done. The confidence by way of mound presence and body language hasn’t been seen here since the prime of Rosenthal. For a time Oh was predictably effective.
I see the new vets bouncing on and off the DL and the younger guys from Memphis coming up and going back at a rate that we are not used to. None of that AAA group is exceptional. I’m seeing high ERAs and WHIPs I know that relievers are a transient set, which IMO leads to less cohesiveness. I prefer a more set pattern of staff makeup.
I’m probably wrong about some of these thoughts and there are others that are more in tune with the goings-on in the bullpen. I do know that effectiveness breeds confidence and confidence buys success. When I see a relief pitcher come in and walk the lead off hitter, it angers me and saps my confidence. Its got to be the same for the players on the field…. and heightens expectations of the opposition.
I usually stay away from arguing about and commenting on the bullpen makeup. That said, I’ve had my say here and won’t be commenting about this again soon. Say thank you.
ps. do most of you others also consider Hicks to be the man of the future? I feel good seeing him on the mound as opposed to white knuckles and quick breathing experienced with most of the others.May 17, 2018 at 9:06 am #52714
I don’t know who his agent is but must be the same as Randy Choate and Broxton. God it just makes me angry Bowtie got taken to the woodshed for possibly 3 years.
I don’t know why the bad outweighs the good. Bud Norris is crushing it so I guess Mozeliak and co don’t get credit for that one? And if you’re bringing up Broxton, well, he signed the same year a guy named Seung-Hwan Oh signed and delivered a 1.92 ERA over 70 innings ($2.5M that year). If you bring up Choate, I’m countering with Neshek and his 1.87 ERA over 67 innings…for a cool $1.0M.May 17, 2018 at 9:09 am #52715
BHC, teams have unlimited use of both the 10-day and 60-day DL. Further, those on the 60-day DL do not apply toward the 40-man, so if Gregerson is hurt long-term, he would not take up any extra roster space whatsoever.
Gregerson would have to be kept on the 40-man over the winter though, potentially creating a Zach Duke / Allen Cordoba situation. Not a huge loss there though despite the outrage at the time.May 17, 2018 at 9:58 am #52726gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Gregerson’s second year is a team option with a $1M buyout. This injury pretty much nixes that second year.
As 858 pointed out, Gregerson’s 2019 salary is guaranteed. 2020 is the option year.
I didn’t like the Gregerson signing from day one. He seemed washed up last year and then for Mo to come out and call him our closer was ridiculous.
I did like the Norris signing from day one. It was astute and a steal! (See I can simultaneously criticize and praise the front office in one post). If he continues on hopefully he comes back next year to team up with Hicks. I like Hicks but he is going to have to get his strikeout/walk percentages reversed.
I also liked the Holland signing which it appears I was wrong about, although both parties screwed it up by delaying the signing until opening day. If you look around the league the players who missed spring training and signed late are really struggling for the most part.May 17, 2018 at 10:47 am #52745
Gregerson would have to be kept on the 40-man over the winter though, potentially creating a Zach Duke / Allen Cordoba situation. Not a huge loss there though despite the outrage at the time.
While true, the idea on the table I am refuting is dropping Gregerson NOW and his supposedly taking up roster space. A million things could change with the roster and with Gregerson’s situation between now and next winter. I just get weary of the “release the bum” hot-takes when any veteran struggles, made without clearly thinking through the ramifications.
Hey, time may show that the Gregerson deal turned out to be a bad contract, but it is too soon to make that declaration. 8 1/3 innings, people!
The Cordoba overreaction was just goofy. I bet 95 percent of the people who complained so vigorously about the “clueless front office” had never heard of Cordoba before he was claimed. He was a nice prospect, but clearly replaceable and his career outlook is cloudy.
The Cards had a comparable middle infielder, also ranked about the same place in our rankings, Eliezer Alvarez. They traded him for less than four weeks and a grand total of 11 innings of Juan Nicasio. That brought the team at best no more than a few extra days of life before being eliminated last September – yet no one complained a peep about losing Alvarez forever.
I could perhaps understand it if the Cards had a track record of letting minor league guys go who became MLB stars elsewhere, but the history is just the opposite. The guys they let go don’t usually make it and they unearth a few castoffs, like Jose Martinez, who surprise.
Ironically, Gregerson was one of the few guys the Cards let go as a minor leaguer in recent years who went on to have a decent MLB career.May 17, 2018 at 12:39 pm #52750
gscottar, Scott Boras does not screw anything up. 😉
The only reason the Cards signed Holland was that his price in dollars and years dropped once the season began. Hard to say the team screwed up when what appeared to be a good deal dropped into their lap very late.
You can certainly question Holland’s mound results, but given their overall pitching situation, I get why the team did not want to pay market value for Holland earlier. In hindsight, from the team’s side, the screw up may have been not trying to force him to take a longer ramp up time before joining St. Louis. That was compounded by throwing him into the ninth from the start once there.
Great point on the late signers struggling across the game.May 17, 2018 at 4:16 pm #52790
My whole take is that if Gregerson can’t go next year why keep him? There are lots of guys who will need protecting from the R5 and Gregerson is seemingly taking up a precious roster spot. Guys who will need to be protected include (but not limited too):
Ryan HelsleyMay 17, 2018 at 4:38 pm #52796
What makes you think Gregerson could not pitch in 2019? Why focus on that very low probability now before we even know what is wrong with him? Whatever it is would have to be pretty darned serious to knock him out for 16 months or more.
Duke came back from full Tommy John in eight months, for example. The new ligament repair is also faster. But all that is pure speculation, as we have no idea what his situation currently is, other than he is on the 10-day DL.
And like I already said twice, there would be no possible roster benefit until at least fall, even if it is a long-term injury. So, why release him now? Still makes no sense.
P.S. I forgot to mention that the Duke contract was partially insured, meaning there would have been an additional cost to release him beyond what we could see. The front office has all these facts to weigh when making decisions. We don’t have that clear of a view.May 17, 2018 at 4:58 pm #52804
Shoulder impingement typically requires surgery and throw in the elbow injury it appears to me he’s headed for a long DL stint. The new ligament repair didn’t work with the previous 2 Cardinals pitchers: Maness and Mitchell. Duke is an outlier. Look at how long its taken Reyes to get healthy. Its apparent we are going to disagree on this.May 17, 2018 at 5:16 pm #52806
If you really think that Reyes has taken this long to get healthy, then you are not paying attention. Assume the worst about Gregerson if you want. I don’t care. My bottom line is that nothing you said changes the fact that a release NOW would be a bad idea – and it is not going to happen. I very rarely speak in absolutes, but this is one of those times.May 17, 2018 at 5:31 pm #52812
Not paying attention? Speak for yourself, Brian. Reyes was placed on the DL in March 2017. Its now May 2018. Guess what? That’s 14 months not the 8 months Duke went through. And if you don’t care about my assumptions why are you even replying to my comments? Seems like you have a complex there.May 17, 2018 at 5:37 pm #52814
Reyes was pitching multiple innings in minor league games mid-March. They slowed him down multiple months on purpose to ensure he will be able to pitch later in the season and not overdo it his first year back. (Plus all the injuries to others led them to use his 40-man roster spot for a while.) The target for Reyes is 100 innings – now or later. This is not germane to Gregerson, but neither is Duke or anyone else either one of us brought up.
We don’t know what we don’t know.
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