January 15, 2018 at 11:27 am #41830
During the Cardinals Care Winter Warmups Mozeliak said as of now Gregerson will be the closer going into the season. What happened with the fact the bullpen had a lot of major problems last year and needed upgraded? Luke Gregerson isn’t an upgrade and most surely isn’t a closer anymore. He’s trending downwards. Is anyone else tired of Mo always saying they’re going to upgrade the team only to fail in the offseason and act like everything is fine? As of now this team isn’t a playoff team and if the Cardinals fail to enter the postseason again some Front Office personnel better be gone after the season.January 15, 2018 at 12:26 pm #41832
We had better hope that Mo’s comments were gamesmanship because if we are truly done for the winter this will go down as one of the most overhyped and underwhelming offseasons ever. At best we are a second place team right now and quite possibly third best.January 15, 2018 at 12:51 pm #41833
I don’t want to trade Flaherty and others for Colome. I don’t want to give any closer the kind of money Wade Davis got ($51M), much less Greg Holland. The bullpen is already not going to fail as much this year because we’re not starting off with Broxton and Oh, and we will not be following Rosenthal down the road to TJ surgery. Gregerson and Tuivailala, with possible help from Brebbia who was a closer Independent ball a few years ago should be able to get us through April. Then, Reyes or Hicks or Helsley should be able start closing.
Speaking of Rosenthal, I wish MO would work something out with him. Maybe keep him on the payroll next year for $1M or so, and have a club option for, say, $8M for 2019. When he was good, he was really good. Of course, Boras is going to try to get much more than that. But its still worth thinking about.January 15, 2018 at 5:05 pm #41864CardsRedSox4EverParticipantFree
Mo also said they had reserve cash for additional acquisitions should they get any options. They better because Gregerson isn’t the answer.January 15, 2018 at 5:17 pm #41866LoganAlpha30X7ParticipantFree
The question now then is how long will it take Mo and others to figure that out and do something about it after they do…January 16, 2018 at 4:27 am #41875Nathan Leopold Jr.ParticipantFree
The problem is some posters and fans believe what the cardinals say. I don’t believe anything they say…only what they do.
Every off-season is over-hyped and underwhelming…this one is no different. I knew they wouldn’t seriously address the problems. I know they’ll never get what is needed and they never disappoint me.January 16, 2018 at 7:36 am #41878TexasCardParticipantFree
I’ve been wondering after reading the comments from team leadership if they are simply out of touch with reality. One comment really makes me wonder just what the hell they were watching last year. That comment was we were in it until the end. Laughable. They were never really in it even when they pulled even with the Cubs in August. That lasted about a day.
I don’t think the fans are asking for much more than true effort. Ok so they got one bat needed two. They needed a SP and two RP and got two retreads hoping the lottery tickets hit (and they might but chances are they won’t). They talked a big game this off season and whiffed IMHO. Started strong with Ozuna and then got a flat tire. As it stands they have spent less money in an off season they were supposed to own and the overall payroll went down and of course profits went up. Unfortunately the win column probably won’t reflect much difference either. They violate the rule of don’t over promise and under deliver. But they know there are 3 plus million sheep that will show up each year so half effort will get it down in their view.
Again I ask are they out of touch? I don’t think the fans are.January 16, 2018 at 8:03 am #41879OnyxgemParticipantFree
Mo keeps showing what a worthless idiot he is and that he should have been fired and let somebody with a brain run this franchiseJanuary 16, 2018 at 9:25 am #41884
Its also high time sports writers (not necessarily pointing at Brian) hold this team more accountable. Year after year we’ve heard Mo say this team needs improvement only do basically nothing and the sports writers don’t question them. I won’t be going to any games this year and I was really looking forward to this season after the Ozuna trade. But it’s clear the FO isn’t determined to put the best team on the field. For the life of me I hate seeing the Cubs celebrate but I guess Mo, Dewitt, and Girsh don’t care.January 16, 2018 at 10:43 am #41891Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
Overreact much people.Spring training is still a while from starting and MO has said he was still kicking the tires on some bullpen guys.Hold off on the pitchforks and torches .January 16, 2018 at 11:16 am #41892
The owner himself stated that he doesn’t see any more major acquisitions coming so what are we supposed to believe?
We have not come close to closing the gap with the Cubs, we are entering into a new $1.2B TV deal, we are $50M below the luxury tax, yet we are now essentially done for the winter?? That is incomprehensible to me and I don’t use hyperbole much and I don’t consider myself to be a chicken little either. That is just my objective analysis of the situation.January 16, 2018 at 11:40 am #41893
Honestly … when I find myself agreeing with nate, you know the front office has spewed a lot of bs… because nate is honestly NOT someone to emulate as a gm.
We needed three true high WAR players or outright upgrades (a true high end closer isnt high WAR but would count in my opinion).
We got one.
Playing for the wild card and essentially giving the cubs the division isn’t acceptable. Yeah it is baseball and stuff happens but when you have the young pitching to deal and don’t… Then effectively block them… Nothing makes sense.
“These trades cost too much.” Well that’s the point. You have to pay to play.
Having the chips and not having the willpower to go for things is in many ways worse than just outright sucking.
Everyone knows we wont sign a big free agent. So that’s out.
We won’t pay in trades for big name players unless we are giving our lesser prospects. So that’s out.
What is there to look forward to?
Being stuck in mediocrity with a ton of trade capital and waiting for lightning in a bottle is not acceptable. You’re going to wait a long time.
Case in point : marlins fire sale once a decade. So we have to wait ten more years for another one. So we are stuck at 85-90 wins in the meantime and watch our rivals win and maybe win a wild card game occasionally until then?
And thats if we actually … Maybe … Make a kinda big trade?
Im sorry but at some point either you (fill in the blank) or get off the pot.
Right now we are just collecting checks and enjoying them. Until we actually want to win again this isnt going to change.
If you want my professional opinion… Mo and the ownership are caught in a loop where they think they are smart, are trying to outsmart everyone, and smarting themselves into a corner where the other teams just let them stay mediocre because they won’t catch lightning in a bottle very often.
Basically… By trying so hard not to make mistakes they are making the mistake.
That’s how fowler gets that contract. Thats how you pay for a mediocre closer instead of a good one.
Difference makers cost. You cant always get lucky with pujols and a slew of other players.January 16, 2018 at 11:47 am #41895Houstonlarry24ParticipantFree
Been hearing the same thing from MO for years now. Every Cardinal fan I talk to says the same thing “is this all they are going to do?” So disappointing.January 16, 2018 at 1:31 pm #41906Nathan Leopold Jr.ParticipantFree
Thanks for mentioning me…I think. Every single thing you said in your post is what I believe, especially the last line.
As for me being GM, I’m not sure why that is so off putting to you.
If I were GM, I wouldn’t waste money on slugs like Gregerson or Mikolas.
If I were GM, Gregerson would not be my closer.
If I were GM, we would have the talent needed to be a serious WS contender.
If I were Gm, we wouldn’t concede the division every year by lack of activity in the off-season.
But, I’m not the GM. The Troika of Junior, Mo and Girsch is running the show and despite what some fans hope, they aren’t going anywhere.January 16, 2018 at 1:41 pm #41907bccranParticipant
Maybe Maddux has studied the videos of Gregerson closely and feels he can return him to the 0.95 and 0.97 WHIP pitcher he was in 2015 and 2016.January 16, 2018 at 2:08 pm #41908
If you were gm we would never have any young talent.
You’d have already traded it all.
Emulating you is not wise on any level.
But when you’re right you’re right. I’d like to think that for as many times as I’ve ripped you, I don’t close my mind to your thoughts.January 16, 2018 at 4:10 pm #41925PadsFSParticipantPaid - Annual
Would Gregerson have the slowest fastball velocity of all closers in MLB?January 16, 2018 at 5:29 pm #41929
Gregerson is a poor man’s version of Ryan Franklin.January 16, 2018 at 5:33 pm #41931
If mspaid were GM, we would be forced into tank and rebuild mode in another year or two, followed by several years of misery as we try to recover. I don’t believe mspaid would bet his salary on winning a WS, and probably wouldn’t even bet it on making the playoffs. This thread has degenerated into nothing more than a venting venue for a very few loudmouthed people who apparently live in a world where they are constantly getting screwed by others. Throwing money at a need, or worse, squandering prospects in a shortsighted attempt to dominate the offseason is what got MLB into its current state where it costs hundreds of dollars for a family to go to a baseball game. You can’t blame only ownership, and you can’t blame only the players and their agents, clearly, there are those among the fan base who also use anger and fear and greed as their motivation. The fact is that its supposed to be a team game, not only for the players, but for the organization itself. Many of the problems this team had last year have been addressed, and either wholly solved, or at least mitigated. I think MO and his crew have done a commendable job given the environment that they have to work in. I, for one, am very interested to see if the organization can fix whatever else needs to be addressed by giving players within the organization their chance to contribute, or maybe with more time, developing a sensible trade or making a free agent signing that will benefit the organization, both long term and short term. Its amazing that a few sorry individuals, spitting their vitriol, can make it seem like their opinion is the only one that matters, and that they are supported by many other fans when they most definitely are not.January 16, 2018 at 5:41 pm #41933
Mudville it would probably be worse than that. He would have a 300 million payroll and when that tanked we would be the Phillies for a decade.
Three years tops because we would be broke by then.
This front office has negatives. But it does need to be said that they’ve win world series and done some things right.
You can argue drafting pujols was luck incarnate… But you can say that about virtually every great player. Trout or grichuk? One player apart in the draft.
Getting good has a lot of luck involved.
I vent about what I feel are blind spots. I dont feel like they are trying to do more than the bare minimum to look like they are trying.
Why do I feel that way? Because when you’re trying, generally mvp candidates are involved. At least one.
Stanton counts… But it didn’t get done. Yet again. Which is par for the course.
Like it or not, you’re generally not judged in life for what you almost got done.
Or if you are it is not a good thing.January 16, 2018 at 8:11 pm #41937NJ315Participant
They said one of the main objectives for 2018 was improving the bullpen. Is Gregerson the best they could do? Why not Reed? Maybe Gregerson will have a great year but the odds are not with him. Reed is 4 years younger. I guess they saved 5 million there is that upside.
They won’t sign any free agent because they all have warts and want too much money or are elite players that want too many years and out this world money. They are so afraid to being burned on a huge contract that they keep signing the Leakes and Fowlers of the world. Only to be disappointed but patting themselves on that back “ha at least is only a 5 year contract.
They won’t trade because they might trade the next Pujols and they can’t risk that.
They won’t trade because other teams want way too much in return. You have to hold you chips. You may hold them too long and they bust but that is the kind of risk they are willing to take.
There are options to make this team better that they will not consider because it will involve risking money on a free agent that may not work out. So they can’t trade because they want to hold on to the prospects and can’t sign anybody because they want to hold on to the money.
This team is banking on Gregerson returning to being good, Carp to bat 3rd and provide the left hand side power to compliment Ozuna, that is if he can figure out how to bat 3rd. That Martinez will figure out how to be an ace, Wacha to build up his stamina, Waino to turn back time, Weaver to mature and become more consistent, Mikolas to believe his in Japan so he can be as good.
Will Pham repeat 2017 and not have any vision problems? Will DeJong be as good as last year? Will Gyorko repeat his first half but not his second? Will Yadi stay healthy all year and play at the same level? Who is the real Wong? What will Fowler be now that he may be sulking in right?
We will have the answers and then decisions will be made.
They need a power lefthanded bat, a closer, and #2 pitcher.
The owner said “the incredible run they had during Matheny first 4 years”. Of course not mentioning 2016 or 2017. Making the playoffs is not enough and this team right now will be lucky to get the wildcard. If having a chance of making the playoffs every year is your goal then the 2018 represents as they have expressed mission accomplished.January 16, 2018 at 8:33 pm #41939stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
While I don’t think Gregerson is going to be stellar as a closer and wouldn’t have minded seeing Reed at his $$ playing in St Louis… I would be interested in seeing Helsley and Hicks fast tracked into the Mlb bullpen. Fernandez strikes me as another lively arm that might not be needed as a starter in the next two years who could dominate in short outings.January 16, 2018 at 9:21 pm #41940
Reed might have been a nice addition, maybe not. If he’s going to get lit up every other time he hits the mound, then he’s not such a good addition and maybe we’d be better off with Gregerson or Tuivailal. Derrick Goold offered at viable explanation for why the Cardinals didn’t sign Reed. Essentially, he said that based on the fact that Reed has had a heavy work load in the past, and that no other teams were rushing to sign him, its possible that the Cardinals didn’t see him as a good fit. Being cheap had nothing to do with it.
We don’t know why they haven’t traded for Colome. Goold said they never were really interested in Colome. Instead they tried talking to the Rays about Archer. But the Rays didn’t want to talk about Archer. Its not about being cheap here either. Its about what they think will work best for the organization and the team. Nobody knows if Colome would be better than Gregerson and others that are already ion the organization. But they don’t think overwhelming the Rays to get Colome is worth the risk. We don’t know how Gregerson and potential others will respond to the stress of closing. But we do know that Broxton, Oh, and a worn out Siegrist are not going to be getting torched night after night. (I sure hope Cecil is a lot better than he was last year.)
I don’t know of a power left-handed bat that would fit into our lineup that is obtainable. We can wish for anything we want. Occasionally, wishes come true. So far that one hasn’t. Donaldson and Machado are both right-handed and would fill the need. Maybe Donaldson could be pried away from the Blue Jays even though they have consistently said that they want to contend and that Donaldson is not available. But he would almost be sure to be a one year rental, and after the 2018 season we would have nothing to show for giving up a boatload of top prospects as well as much o the orgznization’s future. We could get Machado. But first of all, he doesn’t want to play third for us. Instead he has told us he wants to be a shortstop again. Go figure. Regardless of that, we would have to give up Flaherty and another pitching prospect for a guy who would be spending the summer in St. Louis so he can showcase his talent for other teams. His agent doesn’t even want to consider an extension.
There just isn’t a dominant closer available. Gregerson could very well be as good as we’re ever going to get. Hopefully, the organization can ultimately find the answer to the closing question within itself.
Everyone would love to have a No. 2 starter. But do we really want to give up a bevy of talent when we have several promising starters almost ready? Maybe we should. Time will tell. I still think it would be a good idea to bring Lynn back, but MO apparently doesn’t.
All in all I still think the organization has had a very good offseason. IMO, getting Ozuna was an almost unbelievable accomplishment, better for the team and the organization than getting Stanton would have been. Stanton might be a head case. The Yankees have him and his injury history for 10 years.
.January 16, 2018 at 9:51 pm #41941stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Good points, mudville. The market for trades has just not gone the Cards’ way and the free agent class was always going to be iffy. People like appearances though and it looks better to go with the “proven” talent than what you have on hand, sometimes.
Fwiw, Helsley looks a lot like Rosenthal coming through the system in 2012 to me.January 16, 2018 at 10:09 pm #41942
“The market for trades has just not gone the Cards’ way and the free agent class was always going to be iffy.”
That’s been the same tired excuse for the past 3 years. Bold promises by Mo but then after a bunch of nothing he claims they tried. You’re fooling yourselves if you think this team is contending with the Cubs.
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