Jack Flaherty Extension

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  • #154363
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    bb said:

    A lot of times Mo has to bring in some help before opening day. A lot of times by the break he is looking to bring in somebody to answer the bell every 5 days.

    Really? In recent years? Who are these starters, please?

    The last spring addition of note I can think of is Lohse in 2008. At the deadline, Lackey in 2014. They were a long time ago…

    #154367
    Avatarbccran
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    Bingo, Ny. Good input. Get a decent proven pitcher back for him in a trade (plus maybe a good proven outfielder or two).

    #154369
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    But this is the time of year for irrational optimism with reality just over the hill and out of sight.

    I consider myself a realist about this team. I felt they were an upper 70s win team prior to the Arenado trade and resigning Yadi and Waino. All that pushes them to a true talent mid 80s win team (which is pretty normal for them). Where I think the team will make hay is the down nature of the rest of the division. They will have 4 other teams who are probably not even .500 talent including the Pirates, who are a near certain 100 loss team. That should push them to around 90 wins. Get in the playoffs and anything can happen.

    Individually, there are lots of factors than can affect how the team ends up playing. Any number of players could get hurt or play better or worse than we’d otherwise expect and push win totals in any direction. It’s very unlikely that everything will go wrong in every direction (2020 was pretty close) just as it’s very unlikely everything will go right in every direction (remember 2013?).

    As for Jack, he looked fine to me last year. Would I expect him to go win the Cy Young this year? No, because unless you’re Degrom that’s just not something to assume. But I would expect him to be the best starter on the staff, pitch 150+ innings (hard to say how many after the truncated 2020) and have an ERA in the low 3s. If the Cards need pitching, I have no doubt some will be available at the deadline and they have some prospect depth to make it happen.

    #154372
    AvatarCardinals27
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    I would entertain trade ideas for Flaherty, but I would not give him away. If a Wander Franco type was available, that would be a possibility. Another factor is what the CBA would get in return when Flaherty walks. TBD.
    My buddy is a Pirates fan, and I have yet to understand why they traded Cole for so little in return, and have had many conversations with him about it. Is that the market for a young ace with 2 controllable years? If so, you ought to keep him.

    #154373
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Snell had 3 yrs remaining and was just dealt to the Padres. That’s as close of comp that I can think of in this current market.

    #154376
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The suggestion was ace-for-younger-ace trade so the Snell deal does not fit. But he is the right experience level at least – and we should also note that the source is the Rays, who don’t do business like most other teams.

    #154378
    Avatargscottar
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    I can’t say 100% the Cardinals shouldn’t trade him now but I would only consider it if they were overwhelmed with high end MLB ready players coming back in return. Since that is unlikely to happen, the best strategy is to pay him his $3.9 this year, make a lucrative long term off next winter, and if he refuses then continue to go year to year. I would rather play this out and get a comp pick than trade him for long term lottery tickets like the Cubs did with Darvish. That was a garbage trade for them.

    #154380
    Avatarbccran
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    Jack needs to understand that you can’t have ridiculously high salaries on the high end, and expect them also on the low end of tenure.

    #154381
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    “Ridiculously high” is a statement of your opinion, which I can guarantee the Players Association does not agree with.

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to consider this in the context of the business of baseball, rather than other perspectives that do not translate?

    #154382
    Avatarblingboy
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    Brian, I said looking, not finding. :-p

    #154383
    Avatarbccran
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    If you don’t think $30,000,000.00 for a pitcher for 9-10 months of work is ridiculous, I can’t help you. That’s for 30 starts or so. 100 pitches or so per start. That works out to $10,000.00 per pitch. Absurd. Ridiculous. By any standards.

    #154384
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Right. You can’t help me. We agree on that… 😉

    #154385
    Avatarblingboy
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    cranny, Mike Tyson made $22 Million for knocking out Spinks in a minute and a half. And Spinks made $13 Million for getting the crud beat out of him for a minute and a half. Sports paydays can be insane.

    #154387
    Avatarbccran
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    I’ll go with Mark McGwire, who said 20 years ago – that salaries were getting out of hand and it’s not good for baseball. Said there are enormous amounts of money being thrown around and that he hoped things would get straightened out because it’s mind boggling.

    Interesting, BW, that you think a guy throwing a baseball is
    worth $10,000.00 a pitch. Of course even those in a very tiny majority are due their opinion.

    #154388
    Avatarbccran
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    I agree, blingboy. It’s not just baseball. It’s across many sports. The insanity isn’t quite the same in pro football, at least, where some of the contract may not be guaranteed.

    #154390
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    So what do we do, bccran? Limit salaries so that owners can stuff more into their pockets? I’d be more than happy with a salary limit and floor, so long as owners have a profit maximum and there are hard caps on the cost of tickets, concessions, etc to make games for affordable for families to attend.

    #154396
    Avatarforsch31
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    I have been one of the most outspoken on here about trading Flaherty. However, now that we have Arendado, I would not be trading him…..yet. I want to see what the 2021 team can do. This team has a shot.

    I think Reyes COULD replace Flaherty but it is not a guarantee. They also have Oviedo who is close to being ready. Then, Liberatore, Thompson and Rondon need about 1 more year to be ready. Depending on how these young pitchers perform in the next year, I could relate to the Cardinals trying to trade Flaherty after 2021 if they could get a good return for him. But that return would have to be pretty great for me to like it then.

    #154397
    Avatarbccran
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    25 – The 4 seats I have to a few Cardinal games have a face value of $140.00 each. I pay less, because I’m part of a season ticket group. If I’m a parent with 2 young kids, and my wife and I take them to a game (and we’re not part of a season ticket group), it would cost –

    Tickets – $560.00
    Food – $60.00 (at $15 each. It could be more)
    Parking – $20.00

    Total – $640.00

    That’s so guys can make absurd salaries. Guys like JF can’t see this. They are pricing the game out of the reach of young families. Kids who are playing little league ball, and want to see their heroes. It’s going to catch up to the industry. Already has to a certain extent.

    #154398
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    That’s so guys can make absurd salaries. Guys like JF can’t see this. They are pricing the game out of the reach of young families. Kids who are playing little league ball, and want to see their heroes. It’s going to catch up to the industry. Already has to a certain extent.

    Players make large salaries, as do the owners. I don’t think it’s the players who set the prices for the tickets. As best as we can tell, 40-50% of revenues go to player salaries. What becomes of the rest?

    I would like to see ticket prices drop too…but as long as the market holds up, I’m afraid we won’t see any change in that.

    #154399
    Avatarforsch31
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    This is the case of what came first, the chicken or the egg? Some say the players cause the prices of tickets and concessions to go up. Some say the owners are greedy and continue to line their pockets. Both are correct to some degree. As long as fans buy tickets and concessions, the prices will go up. And as long as the owners are willing to pay more to the players, they will raise ticket prices and concession prices to pay for them.

    But baseball club owners are no different than automobile manufacturers, cattle farmers, electricians, carpenters and anyone else who sets their own prices. Owners can keep salaries lower if ALL of them agree to it. However, then it’s collusion.

    #154400
    Avatarbccran
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    25 – When I go to Spring Training and stand behind the benches of AAA, AA, A+, A, and short season teams, I listen to the players’ banter. It’s mainly in Spanish. If you price baseball out of the range where a family can bring their young kids to a game, eventually you’re going to lose some of your fan base. Many of these kids when they grow up aren’t going to be as avid of baseball fans as older generations. A friend of mine, who was the President of Rawlings at one time said that baseball has been on the decline for many years. Not as many baseball products sold. That’s sad. And with this pandemic and people out of work, how long do you think it’s going to be until the crowds are back to full strength? Couple that with kids of today going for constant action sports – soccer, hockey, lacrosse, basketball, etc. over the slower action sport of baseball and you have a real problem brewing downstream. When the negotiations start for the new contract, I deeply hope both sides discuss all of this.

    #154402
    AvatarTexasCard
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    There are on average about 18 minutes of actual action in a 9 inning game. What has helped baseball some in recent years is the focus on concussions in football and soccer. But how long that last is anyone’s guess.

    #154403
    Avatarblingboy
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    Superbowl this year had lowest TV audience since 2007, at a time when there is little to do but sit home and watch the tube. Two small market teams didn’t help though. We will have to see how things go for MLB this year. As for me, I have no intention of trying to figure out what I need to to do to find the game on TV every night. The box score in the morning will be fine. Will probably get up to Peoria a few times. I truly do enjoy having a beer and a dog at a baseball game without getting bent over. Usually its my wife and I, we enjoy the drive. My sons can’t afford to take their kids to games like I took them, so they have mostly lost interest. Grandsons couldn’t care less.

    #154405
    Avatarmudville
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    The future of the game is riding on the next CBA. Both sides had better be willing to talk to one another about their needs rather than just sit there and keep repeating their demands.

    #154414
    Avatarbccran
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    blingboy – I have 6 grandchildren (4 on the West Coast and 2 on the East Coast), and only one of them plays baseball. And even he’s starting to lose interest as he gets involved in flag football. The others are involved on traveling teams in soccer, basketball, and lacrosse.

    Drive by Forest Park in St. Louis in the summer and the baseball fields are empty. They used to be jam packed
    all day and into the evening.

    I also drove by the field down on “the hill” on a Saturday last summer where Yogi and Joe G. used to play with friends from morning to dusk…..and it was empty.

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