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As I said before: What’s the rush?
I like Shildt. He very well may be the manager we need in the long term. Now that he’s been locked in he’d better be.
But why was it so urgent? Where was the pressure to sign coming from? What was the downside of examining the results of the rest of the year before making our move.
Anyhow, I like what I’ve seen so far and I’m hoping for the best.
jager,
Your comparison Shildt and Matheny – came in, won a bunch of games, was ‘fawned over’, doesn’t take into account their individual baseball backgrounds.
Matheny had zero prior management experience. Zero. He retired as a player on Feb 1, 2017 and was hired by St Louis as a special advisor on Jan 24, 2018. Three years, nine plus months later he became manager and his prior coaching experience consisted of Little League baseball. Hiring him was a risk with no prior record to look at but St Louis rolled the dice. It initially worked well but each season his results were a bit lower/less than the previous year.
Shildt has extensive prior management experience, including back-to-back Appalachian League titles in 2010 and 2011 followed by a Double-A Texas League title in 2012. He’s been a bench coach on the MLB club. While he may or may not succeed, long-term, his hiring has a far more solid foundation than did Matheny’s.
Oh, and on that ‘how he handles Carp not hitting well’ thing – while Marp is still getting on base and slugging when he connects, he’s batting .266 over the last 28 days and .262 in his last 14 days (Baseball Reference source)
You have to be impressed that Stubby has been named Manager of the Year two years in a row in the PCL; I believe by his peers rather than the press.
He has benefited by some of the best talent we have had at Memphis. One of the overlooked things is how strong the team is defensively. Also how ready most of them have been to advance to the major leagues.
But Managers of the Year usually benefit from great talent.
We could lose Stubby to someone who wants to go with someone coming up rather than the Girardi’s and Dusty Baker’s.
14NyquisT
This is another comment made here. Just another example of a “one man Crusade”.
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I would rank the following factors as the top 5 reasons the season has turned around:
1) The improved offense. Reasons: Carpenter, Wong, Ozuna and Gyorko all hitting better. Pham and Fowler being removed from the equation through trade or injury. Bader and O’Neill stepping up and hitting.
2) The improved bullpen. Reasons: Release of Holland. Bowman, Lyons and Sherriff sent down. Gregerson going on DL. Gomber, Poncedeleon, Hudson and Shreve stepping up and doing the job. Cecil improving from earlier in the year.
3) The improved defense. Reasons: J. Martinez not playing 1B. Fowler and Pham being replaced with O’Neill and Bader in the OF. DeJong returning to the SS position. Gyorko playing less at 2B.
4) The change of manager and hitting coaches. Reasons: Different ways of handling the players, clubhouse, lineups, in-game management, etc.
5) Improved clubhouse atmosphere. Reasons: Different manager, some different players and the team is winning.
I think all 5 are close in importance.
14Ny, I think you will notice that Schildt is given credit in the last 3 reasons.
From Austin Roberts of Redbird Rants in summing up the big improvement of the team.
The St. Louis Cardinals currently sit first in the Wildcard; causing anti-Mozeliak talks to diminish for now. There’s a lot of season left and its a close race. They’ve impressively turned their season around, in large part due to the changes made by the front office — led by Mr. Mozeliak.
Another “one man crusade”.
Fowler was already playing before Schildt took over. Continuing to play him did not downgrade the defense from the Matheny teams. It would be a wash. Not playing Martinez at 1B or Gyorko at 2B was an upgrade in the defense from the Matheny teams.
As noted in the story on the front page, the PCL Manager of the Year is selected by “a vote of field managers, media representatives, broadcasters and team officials.”
Clapp has less than four years of managerial experience, with his first two in short-season ball, and has never worked on a big-league staff. As Sooner noted, he has had a lot of talent to work with at Memphis, but has also maneuvered around a lot of roster change. If he can steer the current Memphis roster to the title, it would be a feather in his cap, IMO, given how many top players have departed.
I am less sure than many others that he is a shoo-in to be offered an MLB managerial spot next year, but if he does, I am sure the Cards would applaud.
Typically, minor league staffers are on one year contracts that expire at the end of each season. I do not know about Clapp’s contract specifically.
Ny, you seem to have missed my point. The issue is “no” credit, not “some” credit. I’ve not seen a single media source that specifically denies some benefit has been derived from the new manager. In fact, I haven’t seen any other posters here, either, take that strong of a stance against Shildt as you.
You seem to disregard what many players and even coaches on the team are saying about his impact – and they are in the clubhouse and dugout with him every day.
As noted on the other thread, there are many factors that are likely contributing to the team’s recent surge. And there are no right or wrong answers as to their relative weight. But to not include the managerial change among these key factors is ignoring reality.
BTW, Redbird Rants is continuously looking for fan bloggers. I bet you could post a story there, then quote yourself! 😉
Its an opinion. Just like yours and mine. Just showing you that there are others giving the most credit to the players.
Did I say “no credit”. I was for Shildt having the “interim” removed and stated so. C’mon even you know that the manager has to get some credit. 🙂
Yep, I could probably post a story there and have been thinking about it since the keymaster here seems to be contrary to most of my opinions and is quick to critique. I’m starting to cringe when I see that you have follow-up comment, like this last one. This one hurts.
At least I give you credit for all the good work you do to keep even us die-hards up on all things Cardinals. (And I appreciate you not booting me out of here.)
This is the best Cardinal site anywhere.
I had no intent to hurt feelings, Ny. My experience has been that you can both dish it out and take it, so I am perhaps less tactful than with some others. I will be more careful. Just because I do not always agree with you does not mean you are not a valued member of this community. What a boring place it would be if everyone agrees on everything.
A gentleman on Twitter posted this link to a story I wrote about Shildt 11 years ago. I am glad CBS did not kill it as it was fun to re-read.
https://247sports.com/mlb/cardinals/Article/Who-is-Mike-Shildt-Why-StL-Fans-Should-Care-104442696/
UCONN…
very good points on Shildt’s coaching history…still MM may have been handed the gig with no experience, but he earned that extension and leash by going out there and getting to the World Series…
still, with how we jumped the gun with MM in hindsight, you think we’d be a bit more patient before handing out extensions…even if we failed to get to the postseason this year but fought through a couple losing series and failed at the end of the year…i’d be happy if they signed him the next day…i woudl understand that… seeing how he deals with this stretch run and the growing expectations is big…which he hasnt dealt with…
we are on a hot streak..that isnt realistic to think can continue…and i want to see how he gets to the next streak…its only been 30 games…even with bench coach and minor league experience that isnt enough for me to forgo some extra looking
what do we do if the Cards start losing bad and return to the earlier season woes? they obviously have it in them to not play well, and as good as a coach can be he cant play the game…If we go on a losing streak what do we do? fire him and pay him for 3 yrs while we find another manager to try?
It isnt his worth i am questioning, just the timing…no one was asking for this to happen yet they forced it through in my opinion as kind of PR stunt…something to show they have done something to prove they the FO have been a driving part in the Cards turnaround…NOT a reason why it was failing and needed turn around
Keymaster…. thank you for your frank remarks. I like to hear comments regarding my opinions… good or bad. I said this many times that I read through an awful lot of the postings here and I enjoy all of the opinions whether I agree or not. Truthfully the comments here are mostly ones that you can learn from.
I often throw in my two-cents in agreement or disagreement. That’s my MO…. and for the most part, I’m very polite. I don’t get personal except with you…. I know that you can give it take also. You know that I admire you.
The problem got worse as the toxic atmosphere developed off the field. MM ran out of patience with the “me first” players and it turned ugly. He thought several of the veterans were setting a very bad example for the younger players.
jager,
Pls forgive the delay in my reply but it’s been a tad hectic around here. 🙂
I too would have been OK with management waiting until season’s end to remove the ‘interim’ label. But I’m also OK with their decision to do it now since they decided the time is right. Since I can’t read their minds I don’t spend any time trying to figure out the motives behind their actions. Others do and that’s fine too.
Have a good week-end.
The problem got worse as the toxic atmosphere developed off the field. MM ran out of patience with the “me first” players and it turned ugly. He thought several of the veterans were setting a very bad example for the younger players.
Looking back now, that just seemed like a bad mix of personalities. Most of the vets were under-performing on the field as well. It strikes me as a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, where the manager was not good with the personnel he had, and vice versa.
Shildt comes across as a lot more positive in his leadership, and shows more confidence in his player’s abilities. Matheny was always looking for the right combination, and putting players out of position in the hopes that something would click. Shildt’s style is more Red Schoendienst-like: “I know you can do this, so you are my ‘fill in the position’ the rest of the season.”
The FO saddled Matheny with a bunch of loafers and underachievers, plus he had very few solid choices in the bullpen that was manned by a bunch of overrated losers. The younger guys from Memphis came post-Matheny. Just wondering how MM would be faring with the new-look Cards.
I guess I believe the FO was unfair to MM by waiting to revitalize the team while he was still there.
Re the speculation of what Matheny would have done with this roster, I keep going back to what Mo said about the ‘process’.
Now I’m paraphrasing but it boils down to this: the FO observed how the team was being handled throughout 2016, 2017 and into 2018. Mo flat out said it and went on to say they saw the same process being used repeatedly with diminishing results/returns. It was absolutely implied that no matter what players were in place, the same process was repeated with the team results going backwards.
The FO could have made the player changes and kept MM. But the FO clearly thought that combination would not lead to the desired results and that was based on what they observed over 2 1/2 seasons.
Some may be ready to say “I told you so” about the Shildt contract because of the 3 game skid but remember that the FO based their decision on Shildt’s complete body of work, not just on the last two months.
And for those that think Shildt’s lack of playing experience should be held against him, I don’t see how that is relevant. What is more important is the fact he was a very successful minor league manager in our own system. Some guys know how to coach whether they were a player or not or whether they “look the part” like MM. I hope we never hire another manager with zero managing experience.
As for guys who don’t look the part but get the job done, the University of Arkansas hired a head football coach back in the late 70’s who was 5’10” and 152 lbs. He looked like he wasn’t strong enough to carry a clipboard but he turned out to be a decent coach. His name was Lou Holtz.
Shildt will be fine. He just needs to re-think his thinking on playing either Garcia or Adams other than pinch hitting neither one should see the field. Ozuna and the bad case of strikeoutitis needs to go back on the DL. Jose Martinez better stop clowning around and start hitting because there is no reason to play him if he is not hitting.
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