2022 Gold Gloves

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  • #205289
    1toughdominican
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    Well, I don’t mean to pile on to Matt Carpenter, but the eye test proved pretty well when I saw Helton pick him off 1st base with the hidden ball trick. Then, he got stuck on 199 hits and went something like 1 for 20 and never reached 200 in ’13. He was a good player, but after witnessing those two events, I was convinced that he was not the guy I wanted to see in the batter’s box in a situation that required mental toughness under pressure. The old fashined eye test did it for me.

    #205292
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    I had a Cardinal scout tell me about 2 1/2 years ago that none of the scouts recognized how valuable Edman was. He was a great decision as a 6th rd. pick.

    #205296
    1toughdominican
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    When you think of scouts, just remember that Pujols went in the 13th round.

    #205299
    Euro Dandy
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    The mental aspect is tremendously important. Organizations assess it in candidates before the draft. Once they are signed, there are baseball ops people whose job is mental skills building. Organizations do pay attention with much more focus than just the eye test.

    But those not with a team regularly have no way to accurately know.

    You know they have to do this, otherwise they’d be fools with the investments they are making. More of what I was talking about are the 20-80 scouting evals we fans often see on prospects — the kind forsch listed earlier on Winn-Edman. They usually focus on the 5 tools for position players, and other physical skills for pitchers/catchers. You don’t see that type of explicit scoring as readily available on the “mental skills.”

    #205791
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    The Gold Gloves are announced tonight at 5 on the MLB channel. I just read a prediction on who will win and among Cardinals, it said that Arenado and Edman will win & predicted Walker over Goldschmidt. Here is what it said about Edman…To split time at second base (614.2 innings) and shortstop (622 innings) yet play both positions like a Gold Glover is no easy feat, yet that’s precisely what Edman did in 2022. Heck, the guy might be the best pure infielder in baseball today.

    Winner: Tommy Edman, St. Louis Cardinals

    #205793
    stlcard25
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    I agree that Arenado will win at 3B, and Edman will win at utility. Edman probably wouldn’t have won SS if he was there all season, but he would have won 2B pretty likely.

    #205798
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    I think he is the best defensive 2B & SS in 2022.

    #205807
    stlcard25
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    Swanson proved over the entire season that he was the best defender at short. Lindor was also tremendous, as usual. I’d take both of them at short over Edman. That’s not to say that Tommy isn’t very good there…he’s simply not the best. He’s really perfect for the utility role that he’s very capable of.

    #205811
    bccran
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    Why isn’t he perfect for SS?

    #205814
    PadsFS
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    stlcard25

    Swanson proved over the entire season that he was the best defender at short. Lindor was also tremendous, as usual. I’d take both of them at short over Edman. That’s not to say that Tommy isn’t very good there…he’s simply not the best. He’s really perfect for the utility role that he’s very capable of.

    Edman had better metrics across the board at SS than Swanson, except for innings.

    Edman (622 innings, 8.1 UZR/150, 7 DRS)
    Swanson (1433 innings, 1.7 UZR/150, 9 DRS)

    #205817
    Euro Dandy
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    You can’t compare Edman and Swanson at SS on a counting basis. You have to eval them on a pro rata basis. Swanson paled in comparison to Edman.

    #205818
    stlcard25
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    Edman had better metrics across the board at SS than Swanson, except for innings.

    Edman (622 innings, 8.1 UZR/150, 7 DRS)
    Swanson (1433 innings, 1.7 UZR/150, 9 DRS)

    OAA is a superior metric to either DRS or UZR.

    Swanson 21 OAA, 16 runs prevented
    Edman 11 OAA, 8 runs prevented

    A lower volume doesn’t necessarily mean the guy with the better rate is better at the position. Edman was very good…just not better than Swanson. And I’d still take Lindor over either.

    #205823
    1toughdominican
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    Eddie certainly gets a lot of print on here. All I know about his glove, which is only a portion of his value to this ballclub, is that it deserves to be a gold one. He’s my favorite Redbird player and the primary reason has to do with intangibles that can’t really be summed up by calculating and rattling off statistics. I just wish he’d have kept Segura’s GB to the right side from reaching the OF grass and I feel he would have if the IF wouldn’t have been positioned in an entirely inane manner.

    #205830
    Euro Dandy
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    A lower volume doesn’t necessarily mean the guy with the better rate is better at the position.

    Right, it doesn’t necessarily meant the guy with the better rate is better at the position. There’s really no way to ever say that, especially if you don’t go by the data. What it does mean though, is that per the data, the guy with better rate played the position better in his allotted innings than the guy with the higher volume did in his allotted innings. I would expect the person with the lower volume also has to overcome a built in disadvantage of not being able to focus day to day on the unique challenges of a position like shortstop.

    #205831
    1toughdominican
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    EuroDandy…I agree, and I’ve always thought it was a formula for success to have a reasonable degree of fixture-like stability at the two middle IF positions. Constant back and forth shuffling between the right and left sides and of personnel who man up at 2B and SS is asking for trouble. Almost all of the best middle IF duos were composed of guys who played their respective positions several seasons together. Smith/Herr, Kessinger/Beckert, Groat/Mazeroski/Lopes/Russell, etc. These guys were fixtures at a middle IF partnership that were made better by playing time as a two man team.

    #205833
    bccran
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    That’s why leaving Edman and Donovan in place and moving Winn to CF makes sense.

    #205834
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    Yes it does bcc

    #205835
    stlcard25
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    Or the Cards could trade Edman next year when his salary is about to get high, knowing they have an equivalent or better option in the pipeline. Winn and Donovan could make an excellent double play combo!

    #205837
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    or what they should do is sign Edman to a long-term contract now.

    #205838
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    It is currently on ESPN2. Arenado has already won.

    #205840
    stlcard25
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    #205841
    stlcard25
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    Dansby Swanson wins the GG at SS, and Brendan Rodgers at 2B.

    #205842
    stlcard25
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    #205844
    Brian Walton
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    #205845
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    Brendon Donavan has won the utility award.

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