Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2022 Gold Gloves
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October 21, 2022 at 4:24 pm #205120
GameCard…So is Mike Trout’s…
October 21, 2022 at 4:31 pm #205122bccran said:
Seems like the Cardinals drafted Piscotty, Kelly, and Wisdom the same year. All third basemen. They made position changes successfully.
You missed my point. I did not say that Winn could not make a switch. What I said was that if it is in their plans, the Cardinals need to do it SOON so as to not delay his MLB arrival.
On your examples, Piscotty and Kelly made position changes for a different reason than Winn would. No one was blocking them. They were moved because it became clear fairly early on that they were not going to be MLB-quality third basemen. Same reason as Holliday was moved as a Rockies prospect. They had multiple years to learn their new positions before becoming major leaguers. Wisdom is still primarily a third baseman today, so he doesn’t apply.
Piscotty made his position change in Low-A.
Kelly made his position change in short-season ball.
Winn will likely start 2023 in Triple-A.Apples and oranges.
October 21, 2022 at 4:37 pm #205126How many GG’s go to Cardinal players this season? I’d say a safe bet would be 2, but I’m playing long odds and placing my dime on 3 GG’s.
October 21, 2022 at 4:39 pm #205127Winn’s skills profile as a center fielder.
Guys profile lots of things in The Texas League. He hit .258 there this year. Maybe his bat profiles SS rather than outfield. Its a long way from AA to MLB and we will have to see what happens in AAA first.
October 21, 2022 at 4:45 pm #205130Because batting average is the best way to measure a player… What is going on?
October 21, 2022 at 5:05 pm #205131Seems like the best way to measure a player is $/$/$.
October 21, 2022 at 5:22 pm #205133Games played is the least appreciated measuring stick; it is rarely quoted. It says a lot about the organizational opinion and the player’s value to the team on a daily basis.
October 21, 2022 at 5:34 pm #205134How about .345/.525/.448/.973? Or .283/.364/.468/.832? At 20 years old.
October 21, 2022 at 5:45 pm #205135Edman in 2022 had a total of 6 errors at 2B & SS combined for a fielding % of .991 at 2B and .994 at SS
by contrast at AA
Winn had 14 errors for a % of .968
In 2021 Edman in MLB had 7 errors
In 2021 Winn in A ball had 24 errorsEdman in 2017 at A and AA had 16 errors for a .968 fielding % at age 22.
Winn in 2022 at A and AA had 14 errors for a .968 fielding % at age 20.October 21, 2022 at 5:58 pm #205136bccranParticipantAny time a player makes a position change it’s worth noting, no matter the level. One of the points is that Winn has a far superior arm to Edman. It would be a better transition to CF for him for several reasons. And who long does it really take for a very talented infielder to learn an outfield position?
He could work on it throughout the winter and ST.October 21, 2022 at 6:17 pm #205139bccranParticipantAny time a player makes a successful position change it’s worth noting, no matter the level. One of the points is that Winn has a far superior arm to Edman. It would be a better transition to CF for him for several reasons, including that one. And how long does it really take for a very talented infielder to learn an outfield position? He could work on it throughout the winter and ST.
October 21, 2022 at 8:57 pm #205146bccranParticipantWhat’s interesting is that Winn only played 1 game his senior year in high school.
October 21, 2022 at 9:08 pm #205149What’s interesting is that Winn only played 1 game his senior year in high school.
I read a while back Winn broke team rules and was suspended for the season. I didn’t look further and don’t know what that was about. I figured the Cards did due diligence and it wasn’t something that was overly concerning.
October 21, 2022 at 9:19 pm #205150Somebody tell me all about Winn.
Age? How tall is he? Righty or Lefty? Slow or a speedster? SS his natural position? All field and no hit? Any power? Throwing arm? Contact hitter or another strikeout guy? Batting Average thru the minors? Where’s he from? Fine lad or a problem?
r/Esteemed Rat
October 21, 2022 at 9:39 pm #205152Mother’s maiden name and last four of his SSN?
October 21, 2022 at 9:39 pm #205153bccranParticipantGoogle “Winn Cardinals scouting reports”. A wealth of information on him at your fingertips.
October 21, 2022 at 9:52 pm #205154Rats, click on this. It is his information at Baseball Reference.
He is only 20 years old and won’t be 21 until March. He is a good fielding, cannon armed SS who could be a pitcher. He hits from the right side and is very fast. He has stolen 75 bases in 217 minor league games and only been thrown out 10 times. In addition, he has 5 stolen bases in the Arizona Fall League and been caught only once.
2021 slash – .242/.324/.356/.680 (438 plate appearances)
2022 slash – .283/.364/.468/.832 (550 plate appearances)
2022 AFL – .345/.525/.488/.973 (40 plate appearances)Around 21% strikeout rate. Over 11% walk rate. 18 home runs in his 2 year professional career so far.
Scouting grades per MLB.com on an 80 scale (80 being the best):
Hit 50
Power 45
Run 65
Arm 80
Field 60
Overall 55Compare those grades with Tommy Edman’s in 2018 (his age 24 season):
Hit 50
Power 30
Run 55
Arm 50
Field 50
Overall 45October 21, 2022 at 10:02 pm #205156I found this comment interesting at prospectslive.com:
Field: Extremely athletic and twitchy middle infielder, light on his feet with elite first step in any direction, combines that athleticism with good feel for infield defense, above-average hands with a weapon of an arm.
Rats, I forgot to mention that he had an identical fielding percentage this year as Tommy Edman did when he was in A ball and AA ball in his age 22 season.
October 22, 2022 at 7:24 am #205161bccranParticipantGet a kick out of those ratings. Gold Glove winnner Edman is only rated 50 in fielding. Also only rated 55 in run, with 30+ stolen bases.
October 22, 2022 at 9:59 am #20516914NyquisTParticipantIts my opinion that Edman strives harder to improve his skills than most MLBers.
October 22, 2022 at 10:40 am #205170Get a kick out of those ratings. Gold Glove winnner Edman is only rated 50 in fielding. Also only rated 55 in run, with 30+ stolen bases.
That’s speaks to the difficulty of projecting things in prospects. I’m sure that Edman’s age at the time played into the lower ceiling that raters were calling for. Nevertheless, kudos to Tommy and the Cards development staff for working hard to maximize his talent.
October 23, 2022 at 3:46 pm #205276bccranParticipantMaybe he has the smarts to realize he needed to work on his OBP if he wanted to keep his starting position. Engineering students from Stanford tend to be fairly intelligent.
October 23, 2022 at 6:25 pm #205282Following scouting to assess future performance and ceilings for baseball prospects is almost a fool’s errand for fans if you’re expecting high accuracy. It’s fitting though because baseball is a sport of failure, e.g., hitters who fail 70% of the time make it to the Hall of Fame. So why should scouting be any easier? But it’s fun for fans to track players as they develop, but a grain of salt usually comes in handy. Some of the assertions people make about prospects seem funny to me. Obviously, organizations have to try to do all of this very well.
Prospects tend to rise up the minor league levels until they reach their level of respective incompetence. They are promoted to each level based on their success at the previous level — until they reach the level at which they no longer perform. This is most likely because their skills at one level did not necessarily translate to the higher level. That’s the part that’s so hard to see — until it’s been tried!
I paraphrased the last paragraph from Dr Laurence Peters’ book. The Peter Principle is alive and well in baseball as much as it is in the world of business management.
I also liked bccran’s point about the mental aspect. It’s often overlooked compared to the physical measurements. Too hard to measure I guess. But mental intelligence goes a long way toward a player’s growth. Maybe even more importantly, the ability to perform in high pressure situations is not random. Some people excel, other crumble. That’s hard to measure too.
October 23, 2022 at 6:45 pm #205283EuroDandy…They have a fancy measurement for anything and everything and the best one for both the physical and mental aspect continues to be the eye test.
October 23, 2022 at 7:34 pm #205287The mental aspect is tremendously important. Organizations assess it in candidates before the draft. Once they are signed, there are baseball ops people whose job is mental skills building. Organizations do pay attention with much more focus than just the eye test.
But those not with a team regularly have no way to accurately know.
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