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I couldn’t believe I forgot about our old friend Polanco
I don’t remember ever knowing he did that until a couple weeks ago when reading about the new utility award. I googled to find out if a player could win two awards in the same year and there it was. Obviously, this whole topic is too elusive for me. I need to become uninterested in it, lol.
EuroDandy…With the way players are shuttled around the field these days, I’m surprised that only two guys have won the award at two positions.
In 2023, Edman will probably start a majority of the games at SS. After that, I expect him to be starting at another position….if not for another team. Once his salary gets larger, he probably will be too expensive for the Cardinals’ plans. Although, that may be 2 years from now. While he is valuable, he is not Ozzie Smith with the glove. That said, I have no problem keeping him and playing him somewhere that helps the team. If he would become a gold glove center fielder, I would love to have him for 5 more years as the starter there once Winn is ready. I also have no problem with Donovan (or Edman) being the starting 2Bman and trading Gorman if they can get a haul for him.
forsch31…No one is Ozzie Smith with the glove, but it took Ozzie until his 7th season in the Big Leagues to come close to Edman’s offensive numbers.
forsch31…He’s scored close to 100 runs the last two seasons. Runs are still important. And he had 32 SB’s and was only CS 3 times in ’22. Like you mentioned, he’s not Ozzie Smith, but along with Renteria, he’s the best middle IF’er they’ve had since Ozzie and undoubtedly the best 2B’man since Tommy Herr.
I just compared Tommy Edman to Tommy Herr and it occured to me that the Cardinals traded Herr to the Twins for OF’er Tom Brunansky. The Cardinals did a really dumb thing that day in ’88…
With Goldschmidt and Arenado batting relatively close behind Edman, I would expect him to score close to 100 times. Especially considering he drove himself in 13 times.
1TD, I have NEVER said that Edman is not a valuable player. If someone came on here and said Edman should not be starting anywhere for the Cardinals in 2023, I would defend Edman vehemently. He is valuable. I just don’t believe he is who the Cardinals should prioritize as their starting SS for the next 6 years. When Winn is ready, IMO, he should be given the opportunity to show what he can do at SS. He can be that special. If he fails, Edman should be back there until someone better comes along.
forsch31…Oh, I understand. If someone can man up at SS and do a better job than Edman, I’m all for it. Move Edman back to 2B. I can’t pass any sort of judgement whatsoever on Winn simply because I haven’t seen him play at any level. However, it’s my view that Edman will get even better. I really don’t care which middle IF position he plays, but right now, in my view he belongs at SS considering what we saw from DeJong. I really don’t see that the Cardinals have any better option at the moment.
forsch21…A SS with an average arm is okay as long as it’s good enough to make the play. Shawon Dunston struggled defensively for most of his career and had one of the best SS arms I’ve ever seen. A SS doesn’t require a a howitzer attatched to his right shoulder. Ozzie Smith had an average, but accurate throwing arm and played with a bad rotator cuff for most of his career.
GameCard…That’s not entirely true. The greatest defensive SS ever possessed what could be termed an average arm.
According to Statcast data from 2022, not eye test or subjectivity, Edman’s arm strength is below MLB average. In fact, it is in the 18th percentile.
That does not mean he is not an above average player in other areas, as the following indicates.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/tommy-edman-669242?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
Anyone that saw Ozzie Smith play knows that arm strength was not his longsuit. His incredible talents were in the areas of quickness, instincts, a very accurate arm and complete awareness of any given situation or circumstance.
Edman in 2022 had a total of 6 errors at 2B & SS combined for a fielding % of .991 at 2B and .994 at SS
by contrast at AA
Winn had 14 errors for a % of .968
In 2021 Edman in MLB had 7 errors
In 2021 Winn in A ball had 24 errorsIt’s how fast you get it there, not how fast you throw it. As you guys have said, that’s why Ozzie was able to be great without an elite arm. Same with catchers and pop time in cutting down runners. Mitt to bag is what it’s all about. Arm strength won’t overcome wasted energy in the other areas like foot and leg work, transfer, and release.
Looking at BW’s link to the data has me thinking of all kinds of time and distance calculations and statistical correlation analyses I could’ve given to my aerospace science cadets, but not doing that any more. I might’ve improved some students’ interest and grades if I’d used more baseball examples instead of aircraft all the time! The amount of live action data they capture now is enormous and the challenge is how to process and interpret it all, separate the wheat from the chaff, and use the meaningful stuff to help make decisions.
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