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The real factor in all this is:
1. You have to put together a package that Miami will accept. They’ve said their #1 goal is reducing payroll by $40 million. Trading Pham & Wong for Ozuna & Gordon allows the Cardinals to be the team that can give them $40 million in savings.
2. You have to woo Stanton. His perception is what matters, not mine. Kind of like some of us believe Ohtani wants to play with Darvish, doesn’t it make sense Stanton wants to play with some of his Miami teammates? He apparently made clear that the list of teams he submitted as acceptable is not final – in other words, “impress me.”Overall, I consider Wong roughly equivalent of Gordon and Pham roughly equivalent of Ozuna (except for Pham’s injury history, degenerative eye condition, etc). The fact that Wong & Pham are cheaper will not matter one iota to Stanton, and if that is the selling point, will have a negative connotation to him, don’t you think? After years of Miami, do you think he wants to be on a team that is more concerned about how financially smart they are or is more willing to show him that, if the opportunity presents itself and they can do it, they will? I mean, he was quoted as saying “all teams have money.”
This is storytelling 101 if you want to convince Stanton to come here.
And you have ZERO chance at Ohtani without Stanton. It may only be a 10% chance with Stanton, but it moves from non-zero.
In Morosi’s latest update (video), he says the Cards are trying “very diligently” to get Stanton and have offered Miami numerous scenarios. He mentions Craig Mish’s mention from last week about Sandy Alcantara being one name offered.
If the Cardinals overwhelm Miami, which they can do, they can force the discussion.
– Save them $40 million? Check
– Give them multiple pitching prospects? Check
– Give them MLB replacements for players Miami is shipping out? Check
– Address Miami’s infield issues? CheckIf you take $40 million off of Miami’s hand’s now, I am sure it makes the discussion of Miami potentially kicking in $50 million on the back end of Stanton’s contract that much easier.
And I honestly think if he came to STL to win three rings in three years, he would opt out after three years.
I would think that some of the negotiation on Stanton’s behalf would depend on the trade details and how that affects the teams involved. In other words, if the team trading for him gives up so much that they are a marginal playoff team for the next few years, how does that help him decide to go there. Also, if that team restocks the Marlins and they now become a formidable opponent, he has another obstacle to win a WS. It is in his best interest to be traded for the smallest package possible. Although, he MAY feel an obligation to make sure the Marlins are in a good place for the future.
I don’t see Miami contending for anything for several years. They are about to be a major dumpster fire. Hemorrhaging money, depleted farm system, depressed fan base, some untradeable contracts, about to gut their core. They are headed for last place for years.
i think MIami wants more than 40million in savings…AND they dont want to lose Ozuna AND they dont want to eat ANY of the contract despite what happened with no one claiming him on waivers in August
if you want to overwhelm them you have to actually do that…not just hit their minimum requirements and also take their other good players whom will be all they have when trying to actually get people to go to the games.. .. Ozuna may only be there 2 more years, but he and his HRs would help mitigate getting some butts in seats…Wong and Pham wont do that….and Yelich/Realmuto arent those kind of guys either…
Go big or get trumped by another team…liek the Dodgers who might just take the whole salary and know they will be on TV every night and get all the advertising and probably get a World Series to whome eating double the contract for a while whiel still under the luxury tax wont bother them as long as they get jewelry and fame
I’ve been laid up for the last few weeks and haven’t been up to posting. Feeling better now. Just want to say that, for me, if Stanton doesn’t like us enough to want to play here without us having to cajole him, then I’d just as soon take my chances with some other strategy for winning. I’d love to have him come to the Lou and play. I’d love to see him in RF next year. I’d love to see his response to the adulation he would surely receive. If we trade for him, I want the trade to make sense. I don’t want our organization to start acting like the Dodgers, or the Red Sox. To me they are just slobs.
I dont think Stanton wants to be on a team that is “cheap” but he may want to be on one that has some salary flexability to keep improving.
I have concluded that Jag’s wild trade scenarios are more for fun and that he has no real expectation of anything close to them happening. I get the impression 2106 actually believes the Cards might go over the salary cap. #zerochance #comebacktoearth
No, I don’t think the Cardinals leadership has the vision to do this. Which is why the Cardinals will be also-rans for the next decade.
They have developed a following that loves their frugality and their un-exercised “payroll muscle.”
They will offer excuses as to why they couldn’t get Stanton, they will sign an overpriced reliever, and as somebody else says, probably overpay for a marginal upgrade of a bat.
The Cardinals can afford to go into luxury tax for 2-3 years if it means winning championships, selling out nearly every game, increasing merchandise sales and developing a new fan base. As Nate says, they won’t.
And you will applaud them for it.
And let’s face it, if they don’t sign Darvish and Cozart, they wouldn’t be going into the luxury tax.
Offer Gallen, Mayers & Jones instead of Flaherty in the trade for Stanton. Use Flaherty as the 5th starter. Bring Hudson into piggy-back on Flaherty’s starts.
You are only $15 million more than last year’s payroll.
Heck, if the Cardinals REALLY wanted to make it a no-brainer for the Marlins, they could take on one-third to one-half of Prado’s contract.
If you take on any part of Prado’s contract, you send back Alex Mejia, since the Marlins are used to good defensive SS’s that can’t hit. This also gives them a SS at league min.
You also don’t bother signing Cozart, since your roster is full (unless you immediately turn around and move Prado).
But your proposal was to sign Darvish and Cozart. Part of the idea of Darvish was to help.sign Ohtani. Part of “the story” for Stanton was that all these other blocks would be in place to win 3 championships. Now you think you can pull out the Darvish block and the house wont fall down?
The trade with Miami is the first domino that HAS to fall.
Can you sell Stanton on coming to STL at all? You can’t get Ohtani and Darvish without Stanton and the possibility of winning multiple championships their first three years together, making them heroes both in the US & Japan.
And actually, Darvish is a conditional signing. I am trying to get Darvish and Ohtani to come here as a package. Without Ohtani, the Cardinals have no real need for Darvish (other than as a probable upgrade over Lance Lynn).
If you try to coordinate the meeting with Ohtani, Darvish and Stanton all at once, what happens if Stanton or Ohtani says no?
Now, if you have already sold Stanton on the trade, that you are giving him a legitimate WS contender even without Ohtani & Darvish, then nothing is lost if Ohtani & Darvish say no.
Also, you can negotiate with Darvish and say we can only go up to $XXX million per year, and try to get him to sign for under $25 million per year…
The first ideas aren’t always the best. Evolution happens for a reason.
And if Ohtani & Darvish really are a package deal, now you just have one meeting with those two, Dewitt, Mo & Girsch. Maybe even the Japanese reliever.
One last thought – what if you had the entire Cardinals team at the meeting with Ohtani & Darvish making a pitch for them to come here and win 3 WS?
What if Stanton sits down with them and says he came here to win championships, and he KNOWS that they can win the next 3 together?
I mean, that kind of lineup and all that pitching, it would take something really catastrophic for them not to win 3 consecutive titles.
There are two more fun things that would happen if Ohtani & Darvish signed with the Cardinals:
1. We would prevent Darvish from signing with the Cubs
2. The Cubs “dynasty” would be officially over.Epstein might start tanking again.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/giancarlo-stanton-notes-tuesday.html
“Per Rosenthal, Stanton hasn’t simply given Miami a list of yays or nays; rather, he has told them of his “preferences” but would like to know the “overall plans” of a potential acquiring team before approving or nixing any move.”
If anybody seriously believes Stanton wouldn’t be onboard with this plan, I would love to hear the reasoning other than it’s St. Louis and in the Midwest.
Because there is now way to guarantee any of that would happen. But the thing the main thing is he doesn’t want to play in the midwest.
Was that ever confirmed by an actual interview or was it just speculation…because I don’t remember there being an actual interview where he said it, and if that were really true then the Marlins would never have had talks with the Cardinals about Stanton…
Well, he is saying he wants to be “sold” on a team’s plan. Here, he can save the Marlins franchise, build the Cardinals franchise, accomplish something historic, and opt out in three years and either go back to Miami (with new TV revenues) or home to LA.
But you violated my rule – which was don’t attribute it to St. Louis or the Midwest…I should probably also say, it can’t be because the Dodgers are his childhood team and preferred destination.
If guys always went to their preferred destination then we would have had Price and others on the team…
Well, as for the Marlins would have already had talks with the Cardinals, they might be waiting for better offers – you know, either better prospects/less money going back or one that matches all their check boxes.
In the price situation, he was given about $30 million more to go to the Red Sox.
Stanton won’t be given more money (though I did read they can offer some sort of bonus for switching teams or something and can also guarantee the last year of a contract). Missouri’s 6% state income tax is less than California’s 13%.
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