Cubs thread

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  • #176244
    stlcard25
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    Pretty astounding that they couldn’t have gotten something for a guy who went 12-7 with a 3.37 ERA in a trade. I can’t understand the logic by the Reds.

    #176297
    gscottar
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    I agree. Miley put up a WAR of 6.0 in 2021. Why not just exercise the $10M option then trade him? It makes no sense.

    #177654
    gscottar
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    #177655
    gscottar
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    #177757
    Brian Walton
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    Cubbies make a big move.

    #177758
    Cardinals27
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    Stroman would give the Cubs 2 very good starters, and a 3rd solid one.

    #177761
    gscottar
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    Good pickup for them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they end up going after Correa also.

    #177762
    Mrperkins
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    Stroman on the Cubs. Somehow that seems right. It won’t be quite as enjoyable as seeing Jose Lima go up in flames but I’ll take it. Wisdom and Schwindel are not exactly the strong defensive guys you want for Stroman’s ground ball tendencies and I don’t even know who is at SS.

    #177763
    Brian Walton
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    #177764
    LACardFan
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    That seems like a great deal for the Cubs

    #177766
    stlcard25
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    Even at that price, I’d have been a fan of the Cards going after Stroman. I don’t think he will be awesome in Chicago, but he’d have been a game changer in St Louis. The Cubs are quietly inserting themselves right back into the thick of the NL Central. With a couple of more signings, I might say they are better than the Cards.

    #177786
    gscottar
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    I am very surprised they were able to get Stroman on just a 3 year deal. The AAV is obviously high but that is still a smart deal for the club. It limits your long term exposure.

    #177809
    PadsFS
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    stlcard25

    Even at that price, I’d have been a fan of the Cards going after Stroman. I don’t think he will be awesome in Chicago, but he’d have been a game changer in St Louis. The Cubs are quietly inserting themselves right back into the thick of the NL Central. With a couple of more signings, I might say they are better than the Cards.

    It isn’t a smart move for the re-building Cubs.

    I don’t see them getting much better than being a .500 team. They got some great production out of journeymen Ortega, Schwindel, and Wisdom this year so unless they’re spending half a billion more on FAs, I can’t see them even becoming a mid-80s win team.

    To get there even, they won’t go after a shortstop with Hoerner there. Maybe they could go after Castellanos and Bryant or something and then get another couple pitchers like Rodon or Kershaw.

    More likely, they want to see what they have with Madrigal and Hoerner in the infield and Davis and Velaquez in the OF. They obviously signed Gomes with the intent to trade Contreras.

    #177810
    PugsleyAddams
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    With a couple more signings, I might say they are better than the Cards.

    I don’t think Ted Williams and Cy Young would even get the cubbies within a few games of us by season’s end, StlCard25. Their work is very much cut out for them.

    #177811
    PugsleyAddams
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    And Marcus Stroman. Not that it makes a big difference (see Billy Wagner). I was surprised to see how short in stature Stroman is…..5’7 & 170 lbs.

    * I just goggled Billy Wagner and he’s not as short as I thought he was. We all know who the shortest every day player was in MLB history, as he played in our fair city. But I wonder who the shortest pitcher was? Might be a question best left for Skippy J. and all of the fine folk over at the esteemed Elias Sports Bureau.

    #177832
    Bob Reed
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    After the trade deadline in 2021, the cubs went 20-36 and were outscored by a stupefying total of 104 runs. They’d need three Marcus Stromans just to get to .500, in my unhumble opinion. It’s still an awful roster right now. (Just like the Texas Rangers and their big improvements, we gotta keep the starting point ever in mind.)

    And moreover, I think Mr. Stroman may be overvalued in some corners of the internet. Here are the 2022 Steamer projections for Stro and Steven Matz:

    M.S. 4.09 ERA, 3.95 FIP, 188 IP, 3.0 WAR
    S.M. 3.91 ERA, 3.99 FIP, 161 IP, 2.5 WAR

    So, at least as far as one forecasting model is concerned, either Marcus Stroman is a radical overpay, or Steven Matz is a terrific bargain. Or both.

    #177834
    Brian Walton
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    I wonder if Stroman is designed to put some star power back into the team and soothe upset fans a bit. It surely did not move the Cubs from non-contender to contender.

    #177838
    stlcard25
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    And moreover, I think Mr. Stroman may be overvalued in some corners of the internet. Here are the 2022 Steamer projections for Stro and Steven Matz:

    M.S. 4.09 ERA, 3.95 FIP, 188 IP, 3.0 WAR
    S.M. 3.91 ERA, 3.99 FIP, 161 IP, 2.5 WAR

    So, at least as far as one forecasting model is concerned, either Marcus Stroman is a radical overpay, or Steven Matz is a terrific bargain. Or both.

    I can’t get a bead on Steamer this year. They seem overly optimistic on some and pessimistic on others. BRef has them as such (I don’t see WAR or FIP)

    Stroman-3.42 ERA, 150 IP, 1.213 WHIP

    Matz-4.37 ERA, 142 IP, 1.352 WHIP

    In a neutral environment, I agree with those numbers. I think the ballpark/defense of each team will probably adjust it a little. For Matz it may adjust a lot. Put me down for the IP for Steamer for both (maybe a little less for Matz) and ERA around 3.20-3.50 for Stroman, 3.70-4.00 for Matz. What’s the value of that? I dunno if it’s 2.5 times, but I’d have been fine with offering Stroman $20M a year.

    #177848
    gscottar
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    I wonder if Stroman is designed to put some star power back into the team and soothe upset fans a bit. It surely did not move the Cubs from non-contender to contender.

    Probably so but I don’t think this is going to be a complete tank job like they did last time. I expect them to add more after the CBA fiasco concludes, possibly someone like Correra. They certainly have the payroll room to do it.

    As of right now:

    1B Schwindel
    2B Madrigal
    SS Hoerner
    3B Wisdom
    LF Happ
    CF Ortega
    RF Heyward
    C Contreras
    DH Frazier

    SP Hendricks
    SP Stroman
    SP Miley
    SP Alzolay
    SP Mills

    I have no idea about their bullpen.

    As constituted right now they could be an 81 win team if everything went right but they don’t have a lot of depth to cover injuries.

    #177857
    jj-cf-stl
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    It looks like a trade chip contract to me. I haven’t seen any reports of a NTC.

    #177864
    PadsFS
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    gscottar

    Probably so but I don’t think this is going to be a complete tank job like they did last time. I expect them to add more after the CBA fiasco concludes, possibly someone like Correra. They certainly have the payroll room to do it.

    Bob Reed is right. I think they are in for a world of hurt as a lot of their production in 2021 came before the trade deadline (Kimbrel, Bryant, Rizzo, etc)

    Tanking-wise, this seems like the 2012 offseason when they went out and signed Edwin Jackson to that 4-yr deal (Stroman), along with Feldman (Wiley), and still had Garza (Hendricks) and Samardzija (Alzolay) under contract…

    They traded all four of those starters, getting some really good talent back like Edwards, Olt, Ramirez, Arrieta, Strop, Russell, Straily, and McKinney to go along with ’13 and ’14 draft picks ~ Bryant and Schwarber.

    #177874
    Nathan Leopold Jr.
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    I would agree that what the Cubs have done so far does not make them an equal with the Cardinals.

    However, what they have done so far leads one to ask two questions:

    1. Are the Cubs done acquiring “significant” talent from the outside for 2022?

    2. Are the Cardinals done acquiring “significant” talent from the outside for 2022?

    The answers to those two questions could have an effect on the dynamics of the NL Central for 2022.

    #177877
    Brian Walton
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    I get your points, nate, but I am more concerned about the Brewers.

    #177879
    gscottar
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    If/when the Cubs sign Correa maybe the perception will change. Assuming they are tanking and will stink again could be a mistake.

    #177883
    Brian Walton
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    That Cubs lineup is (to use a favorite word of nate’s) mediocre. Other than SS and DH maybe, there isn’t a single Cubs player I would take over their corresponding Cardinal. I also believe the Cardinals pitching and defense are stronger. Other than that…

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