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Now, don’t confuse my concern about the state of our pitching staff, as hating on Contreras. They are seperate, but they do share the available funds scenario.
We signed Willson to be a middle order bat, foremost. Great.
If he catches 81 games, fine, he can DH too. We bought a bat and added him to the 2022 #1 position player group in mlb (non-pitcher 37.1), best in baseball, and we added him by choice.
The current champs finished 28th at catcher in 2022, but they can pitch (#2 in mlb). This evolving scenario where catcher needed to be fixed is getting overblown.
The Cardinals pitching staff in 2022 was awash in injuries.
The Cards are savvy. They know that the staff is going to be a lot better this year – even without any additions.Not crazy about trading for Pablo Lopez.
For his career, he has a 3.45 ERA in his home park but 4.54 on the road. (To be fair, he was good on the road in 2022.) I just see him as basically another mid-rotation guy.No harm building more depth into the rotation, but based on the Baseball Trade Values site, it would take Gorman or Donovan to get him — or, say, O’Neill plus a meaningful sweetener. And I’d rather hold on to those guys until July and trade them then, a la Bader, for whatever the Big Need is. Two seasons of Lopez doesn’t feel as valuable as 5 or 6 of Gorman/Donovan. And we’ve seen that O’Neill has superstar upside, because he’s already had a superstar season just one year ago.
I know this is a Contreras thread, but if you can’t say something nice….
Okay, here’s something nice. Maybe Willson will be incredibly motivated to “prove the cubs wrong” and get in better shape than he’s ever been, and have a career year in 2023. Like when Frank Robinson was dumped by the Reds. 😉
BR War paints a different picture 25, one not quite so desperate to fix catcher.
StL 2022:
Catcher- 20th
All pitchers- 22nd
SP’rs – 20th
RP’rs – 27thHonest question…based on your view of the 2022 St Louis Cardinals, do you really see the Cards catching situation as potentially being better than 9 other teams? And worse than the pitching staff, compared to the league?
Cause I’ll admit, those numbers look bogus to me. The staff wasn’t lights out, but they finished 9th in runs allowed and it doesn’t seem like that was all defense. Likewise, the catching situation seemed much worse than “a little below average” to me and Knizner doesn’t scream average starter unless you squint really hard.
GS, the “payroll increase” will need to continue to increase, unless we can send salary out, in the trade.
For instance O’Neills salary would help balance Lopez’s, but the Nootbaars and Donovans are the hot commodities due to the pre-arb seasons of control.
We still have the prospect capital to acquire, but a good pitcher may have a good salary that needs paid too.
bccran…That’s the genuine truth, but you have to account for injuries to both the 5 man and the BP in ’23, and there’ll be some. Injuries are always a dice roll, especially in the area of pitching. That’s the primary reason it doesn’t bother me too much that the Cardinal bosses don’t ever seem to go overboard in the area of signing FA pitchers for exorbitant amounts of money. Too risky of a proposition.
25, I’ve never posted false numbers on purpose. You can find them on BR team positional comparisons.
GS, the “payroll increase” will need to continue to increase, unless we can send salary out, in the trade.
For instance O’Neills salary would help balance Lopez’s, but the Nootbaars and Donovans are the hot commodities due to the pre-arb seasons of control.
We still have the prospect capital to acquire, but a good pitcher may have a good salary that needs paid too.
One thing that we have heard repeatedly, and not just in public Mospeak, is that in the right scenario, the Cards are willing to stretch the budget a little. It would be nice to see that actually happen for once.
Bob, have you read Contreras statement upon signing? I hope you do and feel better. I was eager to jab at you at first, but now I feel remorseful and disrespectful because you are honestly disillusioned.
Find a place to love Wilson like you are revered on this site. He wants to love you.1TD, the FO takes some of the risk and overall cost, and cuts it in half or more, by acquiring pitching at the deadline. It’s not a bad plan really, but there are limits to how much they can get done and who is available.
No sweat, Nigel. And maybe I will check into Willson’s words.
I made the big mistake Ben Franklin always cautioned against. He said he kept his expectations low so he would rarely be disappointed. Since happiness = circumstances minus expectations, my grand hopes for Murphy or Kirk have (perhaps excessively) colored my perceptions of the Contreras contract — as well as the Fowler Disaster, no doubt. So I’m in a dark tunnel. But every tunnel has an end, right? How soon do pitchers & catchers report?
25, I’ve never posted false numbers on purpose. You can find them on BR team positional comparisons.
jj, that’s not what I’m insinuating. I’m sure the numbers are accurately transcribed. I’m simply saying that the play on the field doesn’t seem to match what those numbers say, thus my opinion is that the numbers aren’t an accurate reflection of the results.
How soon do pitchers & catchers report?
The Cardinals haven’t announced report day yet, but the Rays have. Their pitchers and catchers report Feb 14, 67 days from now, so I figure it will be right about then for us. The Cards first ST game is Feb 25, 78 days from now.
jj…I’d say you’re right. I’d also say they normally do a decent job at the deadline in the area of bolstering arms. I can’t complain too much.
25, care to describe YOUR “right scenario” going forward? I’d be in on Bassitt.
I’d be calling up Cleveland and aiming for Bieber. The guy just seems like a Cardinal kind of pitcher. I’m using our OF and IF surplus, plus a minor league pitcher to do it. Even if it took a combo of Nootbaar/O’Neill plus Burleson plus Graceffo, I’d probably pull the trigger.
FWIW, you’ve got me to come around on Bassitt. I think he’d be a solid move. I wonder if we could back load a deal since payroll is going to be freed up for 2024 and 2025?
I doubt Bieber would be available as the Guardians believe they can contend. If they don’t he will be available at the trading deadline.
The Cardinal payroll is currently at $179M. Assuming we take it up to 185 or 190 there is still room to add a good starter via trade, especially if we subtract salary somewhere.
Read Willson’s full letter to @Cardinals fans: https://t.co/lvV1KpAWNS
— The Players' Tribune (@PlayersTribune) December 8, 2022
Contreras is a better hitter than what the Cardinals ran out at the C position last year. He has a cannon for an arm and a quick release. He could carry on the tradition of strangling opponents’ running games. However, what about pitch calling? I have heard some comments on MLB on XM that he is below average calling a game and framing pitches. If true, how will that affect our pitching staff?
Too many people including the FO are having Contreras orgasms. He’s not that good. He’s better than Knizner and Molina at the plate but not a star. He will help with the offense but they need more. Reynolds would be nice or maybe Swanson. Right now if they do nothing more this team will not be in the WS. As for pitching, how does the FO know the pitchers will be better. You know there’s always that chance they will be worse. I’m curious about 2023 but not confident or even encouraged until the raise the payroll a huge amount…say 220 million.
I’d be happy if they took all the players the As were asking for and attached it to Contreras and his contact and traded him to the first team that accepts the day he is eligible to be traded.
Almost 20 million for 5 years to a 30yr below average C.
The #STLCards have called an 11 am Friday press conference. I wonder who will be announced? 😉
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 9, 2022
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