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This is a move a club that expects to contend makes. Plus you keep your talented young players as a resource for the mid-term.
I think it is a good way to go. You have a guy with solid numbers for the position, and still have the younger talent depth at most every position.
The big need now is to build some mound depth. Wouldn’t have minded Jansen for 2 years like Boston did.
Is Yepez trade bait now? They will want Willie in the lineup and since he could DH or play in left, bats from the right side, etc Yepez seems a bit redundant.
NigelT , you said — “Mo clearly sees Flaherty as a time traveler from 2019, but whatever he ends up, he is a high ceiling guy. Mikolas is one of the top 20 starters in the national league, Wainwright has a high ceiling, too. The team could always use an ace and a viable back-end bullpen piece, but acting like we have any further gaping holes in the roster is simply chicken little mentality.”
I think the Cards are set up very well offensively. I’m high on Contreras and Walker as big adds to the offense, and feel very good about a come-back by O’Neill.
You and I may just differ on the definition of “high ceiling” or its proper context. Come the 2023 playoffs, and the NL East or West teams march out their Top Two Shut Down Starters (TTSDS), do the Cards have those? Waino wasn’t even used by Oli against Wheeler and Nola (dead arm and he’s older). Jack still has a SLAP injury (shoulder tear that doesn’t go away) and may be traded if he won’t sign. Mikolas had a good year, but he Ks 6.8/9 innings and has a 3.80 FIP. Hardly a force if anything isn’t “on” that day.I’m very pleased with the moves but I think this year is the time to use the prospects they properly held back to find those TTSDS for the Cards if they want to win the World Series. Start with a young guy like Pablo Lopez or maybe Shane Bieber.
okay with the Contreras signing mostly…a year too long IMHO but you got to go with the flow.Still got prospects to make another move for SP or Bullpen or LH bat.I wanted Murphy instead but we have to trust that the FO felt the trade cost was too much.
I was on the fence about loving/liking/hating this signing, but considering this I have grown to love it:
– Cards still have all of their young guys and prospects
– He fills two needs, another bat and catches
– Compared to some of the contracts being given out this offseason, it’s actually a fair deal given his skill set and positionWhen the heck did teams start giving out ELEVEN year deals?!
I was talking to a fellow Cards fan last night, and had a little debate over the 2 or 5 hole. I’m on the fence regarding that now. I do love the fact that they now have 3 “fiery” guys in Arenado, Willson and Noot.
Rumor has it Oakland wanted Nootbaar, Donovan, Graceffo for Murphy. Toronto wanted Nootbaar and Helsley for Jansen. So I understand why they backed away from both of those. I said I’d do Nootbaar, McGreevy, and Hence for Murphy and I still say it’s as high as I would have gone and think it would have been fair.
I’m at a loss on why any poster would criticize the Cardinals for signing the 2022 National League All Star Catcher.
Because with limited resources they failed so far to address the pitching staff. Maybe they will I don’t know. But with limited resources you don’t splurge on a catcher do it from an ace. What I don’t get is why every Cardinals fan has to like this signing. I never wanted Contreras so to each his/her own.
They don’t have limited resources….they have many young players they can trade and they also have plenty of money if they wish to use it….hell the Padres just signed Bogearts to go with there other big contracts and I would be shocked if the Cardinals make less $ than the Padres
The Padres are owned by a private equity group that has access to billions from insurance company pension funds, college and university endowment funds, etc. Poor comparison.
As far as pitching, Mo said that they already have 6 starters. Backing those up are Libby, Pallante, Thompson, Thomas, etc. If they need help during the season, they’ve kept their trading chips.
Crany I think it’s because if we had gotten Murphy or Kirk we could imagine we just got the next Johnny Bench. Contreras is far enough along we can’t indulge in irrational optimism about his future career. He does solve the catcher problem though.
Yeah Mo said they have 6 starters, but not one of them is a legit Ace that should be starting game one of any series…Add in the offense is still no better than it was last year that got run out of the playoffs first round, if that is what we want again to just get run out first round then Mo did his job.
I’m not getting all the negativity concerning Contreras. He’s a proven MLB catcher. I’ve always liked Knizner but if would’ve failed at the plate next season those complaining now about WC would be complaining mightily that the FO should have gotten an All-star C in the off season. I know its been mentioned before but adding Contreras shows the team that we are looking to take the Cards up a notch…. especially Arenado.
Contreras has enough MLB experience to be able to help Knizner along the way that Molina didn’t.
I understand the clamor for a #1 starter and that is still doable…. I just cringe at the cost in prospects.
Add in the offense is still no better than it was last year
The offense is a lot better than it was at this time last year.
Our starting shortstop is Edman instead of DeJong
Our starting 2B is either Donovan or Gorman instead of Edman
Our starting catcher is Contreras instead of Yadi
Our starting CF is one of Carlson, Nootbaar or O’Neil instead of Bader. Our 4th OF is Burleson.All the players that got their first taste of MLB pitching last year will now have a second look.
As for pitching, the Cardinals have stated they are now pivoting to the pitching market. So, I don’t understand the angst there, either.
Pitching should have been the priority not catcher. There is no angst at least not from me. Their approach makes little sense to me but that’s usually the case.
Including Herrera and Romine, the entire Redbird offensive production from the catcher position provided .212/9/49. over the course of 162 games in ’22. I’m going to proclaim right now that Contreras will provide at least .250/20/60 in only 100 games. In addition to that, anyone who’s watched him play knows he produces with men aboard in key situations. He’s a tremendous offensive upgrade at the catcher position. I’ll also say that I’ve seen plenty of him with the Cubs and regardless of what any WAR numbers say, I’ve never noticed anything that would indicate that he’s sub-par while crouched behind HP.
Pitching should have been the priority not catcher.
I don’t know how you can make that statement when the only catcher on the 26 man was Knizner.
Just for reference Dewitt’s estimated wealth is $4 billion, the Padres Owner Seidler Equity Partners who was mentioned above is $3 billion, he may be able to borrow money from his private equity investors, (which I would be interested in how he does this), but that would be a loan that would have to be paid back he can’t just use those funds on a whim there has to be an asset he is investing that money and then a return on that investment.
Dewitt if he was cash poor, which he isn’t, would have the same ability to access capital markets if they wanted/needed it to sign players…..they just choose not to do it.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/mlb-owners-net-worth.html
Pitching should have been the priority not catcher. There is no angst at least not from me. Their approach makes little sense to me but that’s usually the case.
The Cards got bottom 5 production from the position last year. The pitching, even at its worst, was nowhere near that bad. While we can argue the merits of upgrading position players vs staff, but I don’t think it’s fair to say it makes little sense when you parse it out by specific position.
BR War paints a different picture 25, one not quite so desperate to fix catcher.
StL 2022:
Catcher- 20th
All pitchers- 22nd
SP’rs – 20th
RP’rs – 27thWe were already returning Knizner (0.8 in half a season). Mlb avg at catcher is 1.6, it was Yadi and Herrera numbers that drug us down to 20th.
Nothing about our pitching staff ranked average, we were well below avg, even with outstanding D behind them, and a pitcher friendly home park.
I think there is a good chance the Cardinals are not done this offseason. They still have a lot of trade chips to acquire a pitcher with, and there are some good pitchers out there who will not make a huge salary in 2023. For example, Pablo Lopez of Miami is estimated to make $5.25M in 2023 and he is very good. He may not be an ace but you could make the argument he would be our best starter.
Here are the WAR totals for 2022:
Lopez: 3.0
Mikolas: 2.4
Waino: 1.8
Monty: 1.6
Hudson: .1
Flaherty: -.1
Matz: -.4
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