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What does Cardinals Nation think about the FA signing of Wilson Contreras? There is no doubt that this is an offensive upgrade, but anyone was likely going to give us more offensive production than Molina. I think 5 years is too long especially for a catcher that only caught 72 games last season.
I was hopeful that we would sign Sean Murphy giving us both a gold glove catcher & an offensive upgrade. Does anyone else share my concerns? Please convince me that this was the right move.
I am guessing the player/prospect cost was way too high for Murphy. So, this is a solid Plan B.
The amount of positional value we would have given up to get Murphy outweighs the position value we would have received from Murphy’s defense.
I like the move. It is a win now move and it definitely lengthens the lineup. Going five years is not that unreasonable. Contreras is only 30 and going five years will lower the AAV. It could alter their plans for Herrera but Contreras can DH some too.
We would have had to give up a ton of prospects to get Murphy.
We would have had to give up a ton of prospects to get Murphy.
Ain’t that the truth. Hey…. we got our catcher and now we can move on. Of course Mo can still make a move that will cost us prospects but for now he gets my applause (clapping).
ps. that’s something he hasn’t heard in a while.
The A’s GM was just interviewed on MLB TV. It sounds if they have a defined asking price for Murphy. I interpreted it as young, controllable players that can help at the Major League level now. It sure sounded as if they intend to hold on to him unless they get their asking price.
Breaking: Willson Contreras and the Cardinals are in agreement on a five-year, $87.5 million contract, a source tells @JeffPassan. pic.twitter.com/9UQPt2LLXo
— ESPN (@espn) December 7, 2022
I will be in the minority and say I am not thrilled about this. Average defense at best. Another right hand hitter. The money could have been used somewhere else. If the Cubs thought he was worth it they would have kept him. Pitching needs attention and so does left handed power bat to balance the lineup. A serviceable lower tier catcher would have done. But whatever.
seems solid signing
as for defensive issues?
– pitch framing won’t matter too much longer with auto balls and strikes coming, and it is also something that can be improved
– “calling a game” always seemed pretty subjective to me…he didnt always have the greatest pitchers to work with in Chicago…and results tend to dictate how “good” a game was called….new organization different hopefully better pitchers makes that better…and pitching coaches and preparation can make this better…not to mention technology may come to limit that “skill”
– still has one of the strongest arms in the league, he has good quick release with bigger bags and limiting throw-overs by pitchers arm strength for getting stolen base threats will be way more important…big arm makes up for thatAt the end of the day we got a very good hitting catcher, good enough defense for the job and changing landscape of catching and MLB
Also, had we went with a guy who was decent at plate and good at defense, we would forever equate their “good” defense to Yadi’s greatness…unfairly….by getting bat that is ahead of what Yadi ever could do makes sure that the new catcher is lauded for their strengths not in comparison to Yadi but because it isnt even a comparison…. defense can NEVER be equal so why even try…and whiel we are rooting for his bat we can see a development with his defense …even at 30
remember, Yadi was never supposed to hit…we were happy with that… maybe this is the opposite…don’t go into like he was brought here to BE yadi…he was brought in to play and hit better than Yadi could…and maybe just maybe he turns into a pretty good defender along the way kind of like how Yadi added his bat along the way
just dont expect both…we didnt with Yadi and we SHOUDLNT with Contreras
I hate it with a passion.
1) He’s not as good as his numbers indicate (helped by Wrigley field).
2) He’s too old for a half-decade contract — especially as a catcher.
3) The Cards lose an extremely valuable 1st-round draft pick in addition to the cash.
4) Based on all available information this Contreras deal now ends any meaningful monetary investment over the winter. No chance at all therefore to either (a)upgrade the mediocre pitching staff via Senga or another substantial move, or (b)make a play for Masataka Yoshida, who is a gifted hitter and even bats lefty, which I have heard is a big, big desire of the Cards.
5) But worst of all, due to the cost & years, the potential for the Fowler Disaster is very real, i.e., the team will feel forced now to play Contreras every day even when he’s not the best choice. Even if and when he is terrible, as Fowler was in 2018. And with a catcher, with the physical toll that takes, a collapse could happen at almost any time.
It is extremely likely that we will never know exactly what offer was made to Oakland or Toronto. But even a substantial overpay for Murphy or Kirk in terms of sheer total talent, would have been wildly preferable to this deal. Because none of the above five complaints would have been true in the case of either trade. But now the Cards have a potential albatross contract at catcher, and a whole lot of MLB roster clog for their third-rate manager to try and figure out.
This is a bad day for Cardinal fans. It ain’t the worst thing that could’ve happened. But it’s close.
I don’t think I dislike it as much as Bob here, but definitely not a fan. I said all along if Contreras was a 2 year $20-25 million then it made sense, but we all knew that wasn’t happening. I would have loved Murphy. I don’t know what the asking price was, but one can only assume it was really high and the “Dansby Swanson rumors” came from the possibility that Oakland was wanting Gorman and Donovan in a deal for Murphy. This probably means whatever trades they make is going to include Herrera because there is no need to hold on to him at this point. If O’Neill is traded it could equal out my feelings though.
What Bob said, wish we could have made the trade for Murphy or Kirk and can’t wait to see what they ultimately get moved for. The only way this works out is if we saved our trade chips for an eventual Ohtani deal at the deadline.
I vehemently disagree Bob.(I can’t say I’ve ever thought that before).
First the cost cost:Murphy 2022 $3.5
2024 $7
Mo’s buyout of arb plus two-year extention 3 for $70
Arb probably near $20 by that time, and two at $25.
Five years @ $80 million is fairly close.
Factor in prospect cost financially for say Gorman, Burleson, Woodford, and Pallante. That is close to $10 million in signing bonuses.
Add in the cost controlled roster space each player takes up and the price is way too high to acquire Murphy.Can’t speak for Bob. But for me lower tier catcher would have been fine. Use the money somewhere else…like starting pitching.
Can one really argue Murphy is greater than Contreras, Gorman, Nootbar, and some pitching. Since this is speculation, sub in any trade combo you like.
Remember it’s cheaper to sign the Contreras package.I’m happy with it. Id rather lose a second round pick than our cream of the crop prospects after waffling about it for the last month. Decent cost here too. With Herrera, I’m not really all that worried about it long-term. We can safely let Herrera ply his trade at AAA and he can assume the role in a few years (or Bernal if he doesn’t pan out)
This doesn’t compare to Fowler either. Contreras has had five seasons that were as good as Fowler’s single above average season before he signed with us.
Likewise, his bat is premier for that position and he can platoon some with Gorman at DH.
At a minimum, our team is 3 WAR better than they were at the position in 2022.
Why did it have to be Contreras or Murphy? A team with many other needs could have you a serviceable catcher. I agree with Bob on this one.
The acquisition cost of new #stlcards C Willson Contreras is greater then his reported salary of $87.5 million over the next five years. Details in this FREE article at The Cardinal Nation. https://t.co/TTf8fYotox pic.twitter.com/iipSM8LgSk
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 7, 2022
Bob Reed wrote:
3) The Cards lose an extremely valuable 1st-round draft pick in addition to the cash.
This is not accurate. They lose their second-highest pick plus international bonus money. Details in article linked just above this post.
It is not about risky moves, they all are. It is about understanding your needs and prioritizing them. The reason the lost to the Phillies had nothing to do with the catcher.
Upon further analysis, I would propose this trade instead of my previous proposal:
Murphy, LH OF Seth Brown, Quintana @ 2 for 26, and LHed reliever Wil Smith @ 1 for 8 is greater than Contreras, Gorman, Donovan,Woodford, and Thomas.
In this scenario, the Murphy camp looks smarter.
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