Cardinals – Rays Trade

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  • #119083
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Last offseason Jose Martinez was being shopped around by the org, and we here shared dozens and dozens of trade proposals. It was quite enjoyable, especially seeing and learning of the young players others were targeting as trade acquisitions.

    If someone then had proposed this exact trade that just took place, I’d have considered it a best case scenario, been fully supportive of it, yet skeptical it would happen.

    Well done front office, your patience was rewarded.

    #119094
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Brian…. as of right now and assuming Ozuna signs elsewhere, what do you think the Memphis outfield will look like come opening day for them.

    #119098
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t do formal predictions until later, but off the top of my head: Williams, Carlson and Toerner/Capel. What were you thinking?

    P.S. The prior assumes the players on the team today and everyone healthy. If Ozuna comes back, then an OF from the group of O’Neill and Thomas goes down, probably the latter. Bader could be in there too if he has a really bad camp. Obviously, if that happens, that player becomes the third starting Memphis OF instead of Toerner/Capel.

    P.S.2. This also assumes Ravelo is the 26th man and StL goes with four traditional OFs, plus the utility guys (Edman, Munoz and Ravelo) who are also capable in as fill-ins in the OF as needed. But if Ravelo doesn’t make the team and they go with five OFs, then both O’Neill and Thomas could make the team even with Ozuna (or Carlson for the optimists reading this). The problem then would be the young OFs not getting enough at-bats. That is why I see Ravelo as a better no. 26.

    As you can see, there are a lot of interconnected decisions ahead. Should be a fun spring, as opposed to some years, when all 25 players were pretty much known coming in. Same on the pitching side. More legit candidates than jobs.

    #119101
    gscottar
    Participant

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    Tampa is a very shrewd organization.

    BHC, you got that right.

    (I have been trying to add more comments to this post but I get an error message, not sure why)

    #119104
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    P.S.2. This also assumes Ravelo is the 26th man and StL goes with four traditional OFs, plus the utility guys (Edman, Munoz and Ravelo) who are also capable in as fill-ins in the OF as needed.

    There must be some mistake…I believe that sentence should read “P.S.2. This also assumes Ravelo is the 26th man and StL goes with four traditional OFs, plus the multi-positional starters (Edman, Munoz and Ravelo) who are also capable in as fill-ins in the OF as needed.”

    #119108
    CardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    Supposedly Ravelo is going oversea’s? Am I totally mistaken on that?

    Most have assumed CF is Bader’s unless he looks awful, someone else looks unbelievable, etc. Am I wrong in that I haven’t once read where that spot is his? (last offseason, yes, that was all over) In fact, looking at Mo’s comments about “competition” among the young OF’s, that and LF should be open competitions.

    Due to the scarcity of offensive production, at this point I would not be shocked to see O’neill and Thomas in those spots. Fowler is going to get the benefit of the doubt due to his contract, but whoever is hitting/seeing the ball well in March should be the starting 3.

    #119115
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    CFICT – There is a thread in this forum regarding the rumor that Ravelo is going to Korea. In short, he is not going to Korea, and with that, has apparently been guaranteed a 26 man roster spot out of ST. Look earlier in this thread for posts about Bader. (BW is going to bring clarity to this issue during Winter Warmup next weekend.)

    MO and Shildt want Dejong to get more rest going forward. I was hoping that Sosa would make the team so that we have a competent backup for Dejong and we didn’t have to tolerate Munoz at shortstop when Dejong is being rested.

    #119117
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Why do you think Ravelo has been guaranteed a 26 man roster spot?

    #119119
    Cardinals27
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am thinking there is a fair chance that Sosa stays with big league club, and Munoz plays multiple positions at Memphis.

    #119121
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’m thinking that our FO would have let Ravelo go to Korea, if they didn’t intend to take him north with the team. Of course, if he bombs in ST, everything changes. Also, they need a bench bat with some power and a first baseman that can give Goldy a rest now and then.

    #119125
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    The Cards like the option that Ravelo provides them, which is understandable. To think that because they did not let him leave for nothing in return means he is guaranteed a 26-man spot is almost certainly not the case. He did not hit well in limited time with StL last season and could easily lose out to one of the outfielders in the spring.

    One can certainly debate Munoz vs. Sosa, but it is on-paper talk. Munoz is the incumbent and Sosa will need to outplay him this spring to take his job away, is my expectation. Could it happen? Yes. Is it better than 50% right now? I am not so sure.

    CFICT, elsewhere on the board this morning, MM3 posted a note from MLB.com’s Anne Rogers that Bader is the designated CF starter. I am surprised and skeptical and will dig into that this coming weekend at WWU.

    #119151
    Oquendo11
    Participant

    Free

    I hesitate to say this because it is a totally unfair comparison, but to my memory the last time the Cardinals traded STL players for a minor league pitcher was … Wainwright. If this trade is half as successful, I’ll be ecstatic.

    #119166
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    Any one see how Jose Martinez is handling the trade to Tampa?

    #119179
    Minuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    <I was hoping that Sosa would make the team so that we have a competent backup for Dejong and we didn’t have to tolerate Munoz at shortstop when Dejong is being rested.>

    Edman played SS in the minors and I would not hesitate to put him there based on how he has performed at 3B, 2B and RF. I am still hoping for Munoz to hit the road.

    #119183
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Any one see how Jose Martinez is handling the trade to Tampa?

    No…how is he handling it?

    #119227
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    there are a lot of interconnected decisions ahead. Should be a fun spring, as opposed to some years, when all 25 players were pretty much known coming in

    Brian, that’s why I wanted your thoughts. Spring training will sort out the outfielder moving up to the Redbirds Toerner-Capel-Nootbaar. I never saw Capel as a high prospect, but he did remarkably well in his short stint at Memphis (8 games – 40 ABS). Nootbaar may have the highest ceiling, Toerner struggled at Springfield in ’19. I think that Carlson opens the season at AAA.

    Losing four OFers (should Ozuna sign elsewhere) has put more clarity in the situation.

    So we agree that there will be one OF coming down from STL and one moving up from AA.

    If you look at the present rosters there is a large talent drop-off below AA at PB and PEO. Both team’s OF rosters have mostly guys that have stagnated but there are others at short-season teams that should have room to progress (Fletcher-Torres-Burgos-Romeri etc.)

    #119239
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    As I am working on the new Prospect Guide, I was reviewing stats from last season. Across batters in the entire Cardinals system with 200 plate appearances, over 80 hitters, Sosa had the lowest walk rate (3.4%) and the third-worst strikeout to walk ratio (5.3 to 1). Adolis Garcia was worst.

    #121809
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Weird things going on in Tampa. They acquired OF Manny Margot from the Padres yesterday for their closer Emilio Pagan.

    That makes Jose Martinez fourth or fifth in their OF pecking order and probably puts Randy Arozarena back in Triple-A. At least they have the DH.

    Starters
    Meadows
    Kiermaier
    Renfroe

    Reserves
    Margot
    JMart
    Arozarena

    Not sure what these guys are up to, but they sure like making deals…

    #121838
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Kiermaier is expensive for TB the next three seasons and a trade of him would open up CF for Arozarena and Margot (4th OF). Sell high on Pagan, whose saves and future saves would be expensive during future arb years; and because they really wanted the second round catcher. Total guess, all I got.

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