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We’ve seen the game too often to realistically expect any free agent to come in and hit enough to help the offense (and probably harpoon the defense while they’re at it), while at least one of Bader or O’Neill is a lock to go elsewhere and produce prolifically. No thanks. Save the money and go after 2021.
all,
If Bader, Carpenter, Fowler and O’Neill were all FA’s, and Mo HAD TO add just one back to the roster at the league minimum, for one season, who would you hope his choice would be?
No other roster decisions like depth at positions, or LH vs RH lineup, it’s just about choosing one of these four as a FA, for one season of control.
Bader would be the safest bet to provide at least league average value. O’Neill would be the one I’d pick though. The ceiling there is still too alluring.
Jj, tough choice but it would be between Bader and O’Neill. I may have to say O’Neill based on his ceiling. He showed signs this year that he has learned something. I would want to see if that translates into a good year.
Carpenter and Fowler are about done and I don’t see any improvement happening. I think Bader has a little more to offer at the plate but I’m not sure he will ever be able to lay off the pitches he needs to. His defense is what makes him SOOOO valuable that he almost gets by on that alone.
JJ, It would either be O’Neill or Bader but I would choose O’Neill. I still think he offers the most bang for the buck because of his power potential. He and Bader both bring speed and defense to the table but O’Neill has more power potential.
I am not necessarily opposed to a Wong extension but I hope the Cardinals don’t do something silly like a $4M salary for 2021 then a $16M salary for 2022. That would really screw up our plans for a big splash in 2022.
Cardinals Expected To Discuss New Contract With Kolten Wong https://t.co/FJ6fspFaHL pic.twitter.com/B5Xkzw7A8o
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) October 12, 2020
I am not sure I want him extended beyond 2021. He is getting to the age of decline and he will be relatively expensive. We have others who can play 2B that won’t cost much more than the minimum. I don’t consider him someone to build the team around.
Gscottar…even $16M would probably leave us around $135M going into 2022. It doesn’t seem like it would really limit us that much unless the team takes a revenue bath for the second year in a row.
Either way, I would not be opposed to back loading the deal and signing a stopgap bat for this year with the savings. I know Dewitt would be more likely to pocket the savings since he hasn’t made much money on the team.
Mo missed his chance when he included Arozarena in a trade and didn’t extend Ozuna. Two obvious mistakes.
Mo missed his chance when he included Arozarena in a trade and didn’t extend Ozuna. Two obvious mistakes
Well, he could probably get Arozarena back if he traded Gorman and Liberatore or Thompson. Maybe he should call the Rays up.
Ozuna is also a free agent. The outfield of your dreams is available for the right price. Is this what you’re suggesting?
Gscottar…even $16M would probably leave us around $135M going into 2022. It doesn’t seem like it would really limit us that much unless the team takes a revenue bath for the second year in a row.
Either way, I would not be opposed to back loading the deal and signing a stopgap bat for this year with the savings. I know Dewitt would be more likely to pocket the savings since he hasn’t made much money on the team.
There is backloading then there is backloading. I just hope it isn’t extreme. The only thing to stop us from having a big splash in 2022 is a bunch of unnecessary internal extensions and we all know that is Mo’s specialty.
Those trains have left the station, 25.
1.) Exercise the option on Wong and then trade him. Saves $12.5 million, plus you’ll get something for him.
2.) Trade Carlos Martinez. You’ll save $11.7 million and get something for him.
3.) Trade Andrew Miller to a team that will pay half his ridiculous salary. That will save $6.0 million.That’s $30.2 million off the books and some value in return. Then go to work finding a short team solution at 3B and longer term solution in LF.
There is backloading then there is backloading. I just hope it isn’t extreme. The only thing to stop us from having a big splash in 2022 is a bunch of unnecessary internal extensions and we all know that is Mo’s specialty.
Are there even any real candidates to sign extensions? Flaherty isn’t very likely to do that, Hudson’s injury would seem to complicate one, and Hicks also has the injury and missed 2020 to deal with.
Besides that…Bader? Maybe they make him the official starting CFer the next 5-6 years with an extension. Lol
all,
If Carlos Martinez were a FA this winter, what is the best contract offer you’d expect him to receive?
You pick the yrs / dollars.Are there even any real candidates to sign extensions?
For me there wouldn’t be. I would make them all go year to year but Mo views it differently.
Yadi
Kim
Hicks
Reyes
Flaherty
Gallegos
Bader
O’Neill
CarlsonWe know that Yadi is going to get his extension soon. Mo would probably like to extend Flaherty but Jack is unlikely to accept unless it is a big overpay.
But if any of the other guys on my list has a big 2021 I could see Mo grabbing the checkbook and them accepting it.
all,
If Carlos Martinez were a FA this winter, what is the best contract offer you’d expect him to receive?
You pick the yrs / dollars.If 2020 had been a normal year, he’d probably have an offer for a league average starter for 2-3 years. Something like 2-3 years at $12-14M a year.
With 2020 being…well, 2020…he would get a one year make good offer. Maybe a year at $4-7M.
Technically, Molina’s new contract will not be an extension. He will become a free agent first. To be an extension, he would be required to receive at least $16 MM this season.
But if any of the other guys on my list has a big 2021 I could see Mo grabbing the checkbook and them accepting it.
I think Mo gets a rougher time than he probably should on the extension front. Off the top of my head, he’s extended these guys in the last bunch of years (since 2013ish):
Carpenter (twice)
Craig
Waino
Wong
Cmart
Dejong
YadiThe guys generally fall into a couple of buckets: young guys that they buy out the arb years for and Cardinal icons. If I had to grade them I’d say the first Carp extension and the Dejong extension have worked out fantastically. The Wong deal was fine. Cmart’s deal gets a lot of flak but if they let him go after this year it’s really not that bad of a stretch. He would have went into arbitration after his 5.6 WAR 2016 and had solid seasons in 2017, 18 and 19 (in the pen) and would have been a FA after 2019. Yadi’s deal wasn’t a great one $$ per WAR wise but there’s always the intangibles there so I dunno that I could call it a bad deal.
The last Carp deal is a bad one, no doubt. After 2018 there were some signs that he’d decline, but he had an MVP type season. In hindsight, they should have waited to see how his 2019 would go. Waino’s extension produced a great 2014 but not a ton of value after that, thanks to the Achilles injury. Craig went downhill immediately when his foot injury happened, so that wasn’t a great deal either. The trade for Lackey worked out great, though.
Probably a B overall on the extensions. I wouldn’t worry too much about it ruining our chances to get free agents in the future.
bccran
ParticipantPaid – Annual
Those trains have left the station, 25.And you still bring one or both of them up at least 3 days a week despite the fact it will make no difference to us or the team.
Water under the bridge. Let it be already.
I’ll bring them up, Forsch, only to display the drastic need the Cardinals have to replace them. They need a left fielder in 2021 and then another OFer in 2022, when Dexter is gone. Since it’s not going to be Ozuna and Arozarena, they need to get their creative juices flowing.
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