January 14, 2021 at 9:24 am #151714
The glitter of New York, the market size, and the potential endorsements may have had just a tad to do with Stanton’s decision.January 14, 2021 at 10:07 am #151716
Rationalizations don’t change the bottom line.January 14, 2021 at 12:09 pm #151724
There’s be big difference between going away from something vs. going toward something. Ballplayers are driven by different priorities. To say that Stanton was avoiding something having to do with the Cardinals or the city of St. Louis is embarrassingly presumptive.January 14, 2021 at 1:26 pm #151731gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
If memory serves the reports at the time stated that the Cardinals had actually worked out a deal with the Marlins but the trade was vetoed by Stanton. That seems to imply he didn’t want to be in St. Louis. I think he also vetoed a move to San Francisco. Apparently he wanted either New York or LA.
The Cardinals ended up being fortunate he said no. His contract is looking like an albatross now.January 14, 2021 at 1:56 pm #151733
Scotty – It’s silly semantics. Maybe he wanted to be in St. Louis, but wanted to be in New York more. The Big Apple quite frankly has a lot more to offer than our fine medium sized Midwest conservative community.
In psychology, it’s called an approach-approach conflict. When you want two things but can only have one of them, you have to make a choice.January 14, 2021 at 3:00 pm #151739
Or it is taking something simple and making it seem complicated because you don’t like the implications of the outcome.
All that any of us know for sure is that he was acquired, he listened to the Cardinals presentation, and declined to waive his no-trade clause. That is the list of the facts.January 14, 2021 at 3:17 pm #151744gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Stanton submitted a list to the Marlins he would accept a trade to. The Cardinals weren’t on the list. The Marlins worked out a deal with the Cardinals anyway and Stanton vetoed it. It may not have been because of the city, who knows? He may have felt the Yankees were closer to winning big at the time.
It was also reported that Flaherty may have been in the package to Miami. The Cardinals dodged a bullet.January 14, 2021 at 3:23 pm #151746
On that we can perhaps agree. Stanton has been oft-injured with the Yanks, at least so far.January 14, 2021 at 3:29 pm #151747stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
It was also reported that Flaherty may have been in the package to Miami. The Cardinals dodged a bullet.
I don’t remember hearing that one for sure, but I do remember that Mo tried to trade Jack for a season of Josh Donaldson. LolJanuary 14, 2021 at 3:49 pm #151748
Depending on when it was, Flaherty had a dip in how highly he was thought of. I still remember the year about this time that Goold took Flaherty out of the Cardinals top 10 list for BA. Chances are decent that he gets at least some input from someone in the organization as he doesn’t major on the minors. In spring training for example, the beat writers are almost always in the main stadium for the 1:00 games rather than on the back fields. Not being critical. Just honest.January 14, 2021 at 4:55 pm #151750
If Stanton didn’t have the Cardinals on the list, is it because of the organization or the city? My guess is that
it’s a smaller market and out in the middle of the Midwest. Again, no glitz, less night life, less endorsement opportunities, etc. Another major reason may be that St. Louis is at the top of the murder per capital list and violent crimes per capita list because only crimes within the city limits are recorded. The city only has a population of 300,000. The Metropolitan area has a population of
2,800,000. Big PR problem.January 14, 2021 at 5:06 pm #151752
The 2014 riots in Ferguson received a lot of attention which did not help the area’s image with players of color. Whether this or anything else affected Stanton’s view or that of any other prospective Cardinal is unknown. So there is no benefit in trying to guess.
You simply asked for a player who did not want to play in St. Louis. You got one.January 14, 2021 at 5:48 pm #151753
Wrong again, Brian. Just because a player chooses not to put a city on his list, doesn’t necessarily mean he opts away from there. It simply means he would rather go other places (climate, bigger communities, more endorsement opportunities, would rather be on either coast, etc.) – and is willing to wait for those opportunities.
You really do need to stop splitting hairs. You’re on here all the time because this is what you do. That’s great. Some of us just stop by for a few minutes on and off during the course of the day. In between work and many other activities. We unfortunately don’t have time to read all of your articles, although we would like to. We aren’t interested in put downs. We aren’t interested in confrontation. And we sure don’t have time for hair splitting. Thank you for your understanding.January 14, 2021 at 5:54 pm #151754stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
There was a trade in place for Stanton to go to St Louis, just as there was a trade in place for him to go to San Francisco. It was widely reported. Stanton said no to both. The real hair splitting going on here is bccran trying to parse out all the reasons he actually wanted to play in St Louis, despite saying no to having a golden chance to do so. New York was not on the table at that time, so the comparison doesn’t work.
The plain answer is that he didn’t want to play for St Louis. Plenty of players do want to play for the Cards, and don’t want to play in New York or LA or Toronto or any number of other cities.January 14, 2021 at 6:11 pm #151755
Come on, 25. I never tried to talk about any reasons why he should have come to St. Louis. Not once. I actually down played St. Louis in comparison to other places he might have wanted to go instead because of personal reasons and perhaps greater opportunities. Sheeesh. Do you really have time for this? Does this forum dominate your time and attention?January 14, 2021 at 6:15 pm #151756jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
If it waddles like a duck….January 14, 2021 at 6:24 pm #151758
Insulting another poster, jj? Is that the way you get your jollies?January 14, 2021 at 6:52 pm #151759blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
I saw where Goold was lamenting that neither the Cards not anyone else in the NL Central are spending any money while shedding WAR. Then Brian’s disclaimer with article attached (kidding) (sort of) on the hypothetical possibility Mo really does not want to sign the Dynamic Duo. I think that is a legitimate possibility. I don’t see the team spending the money to sign Waino and Yadi for a swan song year which, in either case, will not return nearly the WAR that Wong likely would have, and there doesn’t seem to have been an interest spending the money to keep him in the organization. It has to end at some point and an arguably justified go cheap season seems like a good point.January 14, 2021 at 7:07 pm #151761
Bling – except for the value BDW, Jr. places on legacy. Legacy players help sell tickets. Fans pay to see their favorite players.January 14, 2021 at 7:42 pm #151762mspaidParticipantFree
In a normal off season the Cardinals would likely go the legacy route. But legacy only works if tickets can be sold. With no gate receipts or very few They’re not likely to add payroll from where they are now.January 14, 2021 at 7:49 pm #151765
Good point, mspaid.January 14, 2021 at 8:43 pm #151766
Bling, good to see you stop by. Yes, I was obsessive about disclaimers. It was because too many people don’t read and jump to conclusions. I didn’t want to be misquoted by supposedly having said it is fact or that I even have sources that suggest it. Even if true, no one would ever admit it. But yes, I also suspect it has some potential, which is why I wrote it in the first place. Thank you for reading and commenting.January 15, 2021 at 8:07 am #151786blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
Somebody had to take the lampshade off the 800 pound gorilla. Hopefully there is no blow back.January 15, 2021 at 9:03 am #151794
The perceived value of legacy players, just like everything else, has limits. Exactly what those limits are only the owners and front office know for sure. But they undoubtedly exist. And in the current financial climate, these limits could be lower than in normal times.January 15, 2021 at 9:48 am #15180714NyquisTParticipant
The State of the Franchise
A big picture look at the Cardinals between seasons
By John LaRue@tdylf Jan 15, 2021, 9:00am EST
This is LaRue’s analysis of the said topic.
They are a team that most people would expect to contend, but few would assume a playoff berth. That seems to be the case year after year since the 2012-2015 window closed, and represents a downgrade from the franchise’s reputation just a few years ago. Making the playoffs each of the last two years helps, but it’s going to take more to erase the 2016-2018 window without post-season baseball.
The current iteration has a significant hitting problem, though it’s a new development. As recently as 2018, they had a very respectable non-pitcher wRC+ of 105. The team’s non-pitcher wRC+ has declined each year since 2016. They must reverse this trend for the organization to move forward. It bottomed out last season at 93.
The biggest problem the last few years has been developing hitters and evaluating their own talent. It’s impossible to ignore the list of players who have left the organization and contributed in ways they never had as Cardinals. To their credit, the organization seems to be aware that it’s a problem and are working to fix it.
their failures and eventual avoidance of bidding wars left them with a gap at the top of the roster.
the offense started to dry up as the previous core aged and departed. To compensate, they spent bigger on mid-range free agents- Dexter Fowler and Mike Leake come to mind- instead of going to the top of the market. It painted them further into a corner. They had a route forward, but traded Randy Arozarena, Tommy Pham, Sandy Alcantra, Zac Gallen, and Luke Weaver, amongst others. A few years there were like quicksand- the more they struggled against it, the quicker they sank.
The good news is that they play in a division most similar to five dorks in a high school parking lot, slap-fighting each other for supremacy.
Some might want to dance around the fact that the present team is solid. Maybe just enough so to allow a play-off spot… it doesn’t look like a team that will go far once pitted against quality teams.
I root for the Cardinals to win the WS ever year but this team isn’t close to the better teams of the past. There were players then that could carry the team. Look around… where are those kind of players now?
Having to put three players in the starting lineup because they are being paid too much to sit is a real problem for me to grasp and it sabotage the 2021 edition of the St. Louis Cardinals. IMO it seems that someone has been asleep at the wheel.
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