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I’m following all the younger Cardinal players – Walker, Winn, Burleson,
Herrera, Nootbaar, Gorman, Donovan, Carlson, etc. Rooting equally for all of them.If Burleson could field like Edman, I might be impressed with him. When he is limited, defensively, I am not impressed. He has not shown enough, offensively, to impress me. I hope he can live up to your hype but I am not holding my breath.
The Cardinals have too many players with more promise than Burleson for me to get excited about him.
Burleson won’t get too many more starts when Noot gets called up. Herrera has seen to that. I suggest jumping on his bandwagon.
This season, until recently, I’ve been rather disappointed with Burleson’s hitting. However, some very impressive ABs lately. Now, it would be nice if he’d hit more over the fence. When they return, it would be nice for Nootbaar, Edman and Carlson to hit like Burly has been lately.
Look @ TGKS’s numbers. If you can hit for power consistently you will play. If you can’t play defense and can’t hit for power you will not.
KCB, the Cardinals have been inconsistent on offense. Right now, the way Burleson is hitting. They probably need Burleson’s bat in lineup. At least, against RHP. Do you disagree?
Not many people view the Trade Idea thread for whatever reason so I am going to post a conversation that I initiated there yesterday:
gscottar wrote:
This may be an odd comment to make this early in the year but I would be in favor of seeing what we could get in trade for Burly, Gorman, and Walker. Not one trade but three separate trades. Of course this kind of thing would probably happen in the offseason not right now.Why would I propose such a thing? Well the common denominator of the three is average to well below average defense. Shoddy defense just irks me to no end. I know that offense is needed but pitching and defense wins championships. I would see if we could get some young, high end pitching for those three guys and then try to find players elsewhere who can both hit and field, either through trade or free agency.
oliver wrote:
Bad defense. Bad offense. who wants them?gscottar wrote:
Gorman and Walker’s offense will uptick. I don’t know bout Burly’s. But they are all cheap and two of the three come with high pedigree. I am sure the Cardinals have turned down acquisitions of significant pitchers (Cease) because they wouldn’t turn loose of Gorman or Walker. At some point they should consider it.oliver wrote:
If we can get something decent then let’s do it.brian wrote:
gscottar, there is one word why I don’t think the “trade Gorman, Walker and Burly” idea will fly.Money.
Homegrown pre-arbitration players with multiple years of control remaining are especially desirable for a team that watches its budget as closely as the Cardinals. The replacement players they would bring in via trade and especially free agency would almost certainly cost them more, perhaps considerably more.
gscottar wrote:
It could turn out that way Brian unless they trade them for young, cost controlled pitching, which would mean they wouldn’t have to pay for expensive veteran pitching, which would free up funds for replacement positon players.Teams like the Mariners and Dodgers have a plethora of cheap, high end pitching that might interest the Cardinals. Lynn and Gibson will be out of contract at the end of 2024 while Mikolas and Matz will be out of contract at the end of 2025. The four of them combined make $52M/year. Replacing them with cost controlled pitchers should free up funds for elsewhere on the field.
Interesting suggestions. Also, it will be interesting to see how Saggese and Prieto fit into the Cardinals plans by ’25.
Burly is certainly finding a groove of late. On trade ideas, I am okay dealing Burly if we can fill another need, namely pitching. No way I part with Gorman or Walker as they are well under what will be their peak productive ages. We would need to be overwhelmed in deal for those two, and it is hard to imagine anyone doing that.
Not too mention, despite management’s view our team is probably not going to compete for a post season berth this year. We are maybe 2,3 years away and that means keeping younger high ceiling players.
I am not opposed to young higher ceiling players but if they can’t play defense then their ceiling is going to be limited.
I am not opposed to young higher ceiling players but if they can’t play defense then their ceiling is going to be limited.
Any bat-only player has to have an exceptional bat simply to justify regular playing time. And by exceptional, I mean at least a 115-120 OPS+, but probably even higher. One-dimensional guys like Vogelbach, Tellez, and Choi, who have reached the 115-120 OPS+ level in recent years, aren’t regulars, and they don’t generate a lot of value. Even in the years Matt Stairs was a regular, his OPS+ was >130. Burleson has a lot of work to do just to get to 100 OPS+ (league average).
Among current players, Nick Castellanos comes to mind. Annually one of the worst outfielders defensively, he still continues to get big contracts and play in the field because of his bat. With Schwarber also on the team, DH is blocked.
Among current players, Nick Castellanos comes to mind. Annually one of the worst outfielders defensively, he still continues to get big contracts and play in the field because of his bat. With Schwarber also on the team, DH is blocked.
But set aside the (bad) contract and look at the actual production:
9 full seasons
113 wRC+
-112 DRS
-75 UZR
-76 OAA (only tracked for last 6 full seasons)
13.9 total fWAR, or 1.54 fWAR/yr.Not only is he not worth $20mm/yr, he’s not even an average MLB starter. But has a career 112 OPS+. To my prior post, a bat-only player has to hit much better than that to justify his existence.
The player who can make a big difference in this Cardinal season is Carlson. He has All Star potential. Nootbaar too. The two of them are potentially much more complete all around players than Burleson.
bccran, you are likely correct on the “more complete” part. But I predict Burleson will have a higher BA than both Nootbaar and Carlson at the All Star break. Burly seems to be “finding his groove” at the plate.
He has to be like a Manny…
Well, he doesn’t have to be that good offensively (career 154 OPS+), but yeah, you get the point . . .
In regards to Saggese and Prieto. I find it encouraging that Saggese is batting 3rd and Prieto cleanup in the AAA Memphis lineup this evening. Saggese is playing 2B and Prieto 3B.
Burleson isn’t even in the same area code as Nootbaar as a hitter at this point in their careers. How about we wait until Burleson actually makes it to a 100 OPS+ (i.e., an average MLB hitter) before we start making any comparisons?
RBK, I feel you are wrong on that. Have you actually been paying attention to how well Burleson has been hitting lately? Let’s see if Noot is that proficient before making a wild claim like that. I hope Noot hits like Burleson has been, recently. Defense is very important. However, with a team that has been so inconsistent on offense this season. The way Burleson has been hitting needs to play against RHP.
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