Brad Miller Signing

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Brad Miller Signing

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 147 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #122390
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Miller, Edman, and Dean are indeed put into place to backstop if things go awry (again) with Bader, O’Neill, and Carp.
    Bader and O’Neill are penciled into CF and LF even though they haven’t yet earned it. Thomas the same way as #4 OFer. And the Cards are very aware of it.

    #122392
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran, on that we agree!

    stlcard25, not only that, but injury insurance is really important, especially remembering that both Carpenter and Fowler are on the wrong side of 30. Carpenter has a history of back problems and Fowler dealt with foot issues in the not-so-distant past.

    #122394
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bader and O’Neill are penciled into CF and LF even though they haven’t yet earned it. Thomas the same way as #4 OFer. And the Cards are very aware of it.

    I would say that Bader has earned the right to fail at CF before he’s removed there. The defense is so good that the bat doesn’t have to be even average.

    As for O’Neill, at some point you have to see what you’ve got there. He will strike out, sure, but his 2018 at Memphis showed off the potential he has. I believe with a full season of playing time, he will match or exceed the production we got from Ozuna last year. Beware of the “not proven” label as an excuse to give mediocre veterans more playing time. Carson Kelly is a prime example of a player who just needed a chance to blossom.

    #122395
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    In the case of Bader’s bat, I doubt anyone is expecting it to be average, but there is a breaking point to how far BELOW average it can be to keep him in the lineup (and in the big leagues) – especially on a team hurting for offense. His 78 OPS+ (22 percent below an MLB average hitter) last season won’t cut it over the long haul.

    Thomas is a very good CF (though not GG caliber). If he hits (look at his 2019 debut) and Bader doesn’t, things could change.

    #122396
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Miller has played enough 1B and outfield that I’m wondering if Ravelo’s roster chances have lessened, regardless of options status.

    Wieters, Miller, Edman, Thomas & ?
    I’d rather have Sosa than Ravelo, with Munoz getting regular playing time in the minors.

    #122397
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bader

    2017 – .235/.283/.376/.659

    2018 – .264/.334/.422/.756

    2019 – .205/.314/.366/.680

    He’s now had 925 major league plate appearances. His career OPS is .713. What makes people think he should be our starting CF? When Bourjos came to the Cards, he was touted at the time as the being best fielding centerfielder in MLB. What’s happened to him? He’s now been with the Phillies, Rays, Braves, and Angles.

    #122399
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    In the case of Bader’s bat, I doubt anyone is expecting it to be average, but there is a breaking point to how far BELOW average it can be to keep him in the lineup (and in the big leagues) – especially on a team hurting for offense. His 78 OPS+ (22 percent below an MLB average hitter) last season won’t cut it over the long haul.

    Thomas is a very good CF (though not GG caliber). If he hits (look at his 2019 debut) and Bader doesn’t, things could change.

    I agree on Bader. I suspect his actual hitting ability will be something like Kolten Wong has mostly been…90-95 wRC+ with a peak or two over 100 in his career.

    If he falters, I agree that Thomas could be a fill in. O’Neill could also if they choose to bring Carlson up. I just think he’s earned the chance to lose the job.

    #122400
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran, there you go making comparisons to mediocre former Cardinals again. Bader is not Bourjos in the field. He was a deserving finalist for the Gold Glove Award last season, so is recognized across the game as one of, if not the best CF in the league. His defense is above question.

    The only matter for Bader’s future is if he can hit enough to stay a starter. If he could raise his offense to the level of Wong, as stlcard25 hopes, there would be no questions remaining. IF.

    #122401
    AvatarSimba9
    Participant

    Free

    all those harping on Baders .205 last year..what if his .264 the year prior is just as reliable of a stat? or even split the difference at .235? If he is in those areas then baserunning becomes a factor.

    #122404
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Gamecard, you are close to the starting OF. It will be O’Neill, Bader and Fowler with Thomas as the primary backup and Edman as the secondary backup in his super-sub role.

    Simba, I agree. It’s just as likely Bader could recover to .250 which makes him very valuable in CF.

    #122406
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Jim Edmonds had a mediocre first two partial seasons as well…57 wRC+ in limited time his first year and 86 wRC+ in 322 PA his second year.

    #122407
    AvatarGameCard
    Participant

    Free

    Edman will not be a back-up. Why would you make your most productive player a back-up? That is crazy. What is wrong with you people?

    #122409
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Edman will not be a back-up. Why would you make your most productive player a back-up? That is crazy. What is wrong with you people?

    Edman won’t be the most productive player. Certainly not when he only gets 300 at bats.

    #122412
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I have made the Bader-Bourjos comparison before also, perhaps incorrectly. Let’s look at their career numbers.

    Bader- 236/320/393/713
    Bourjos- 237/293/376/669

    Bader has better numbers although I guess we could debate how much better they are. As for defense Bader is obviously better than Bourjos but I wouldn’t say demonstratively better, at least not in Bourjos’ prime. He was a very very good CF.

    #122413
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bader hit .275 with an OPS of .810 at AAA.
    He’s .236 with a .713 OPS with the Cards.

    What makes anyone think he will improve that much?
    No being negative, just would like to know.

    #122415
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Can someone pull up some defensive stats to compare Bourjos in his prime to Bader right now?

    #122419
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Edman has to beat out a starter at some position in order to be a starter. He is not an OF, yet. Carpenter is the incumbent starter at 3B. DeJong is the incumbent starter at SS. Wong is the incumbent starter at 2B. Goldschmidt is the incumbent starter at 1B. I don’t see where he is the starter anywhere. Therefore, he is a backup.

    #122420
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Bader at .713 OPS is a 4+ WAR per 600 plate appearances player. That plays on almost any team.

    Lots of batted ball metrics to show that Bader had an unlucky year last year. I am confident of a rebound.

    #122422
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
    Participant

    Free

    Can someone pull up some defensive stats to compare Bourjos in his prime to Bader right now?

    Using Fangraph’s UZR 150 number, it’s not terribly close.

    Bourjos in CF for his career is an 11.9 (he didn’t really have a prime, his number bounced around a lot).
    Bader in CF so far is an 18.8 (he’s actually been around a 21 in the last two years that he’s been our primary CF).

    Bader is elite.

    #122424
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    It’s not that I want Edman to be the backup, it’s just what the Cardinals will do. Personally I think the team should have told Carp he’ll have to earn his starting job back after he lost it last season to Edman.

    #122426
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    A general point. This is a good example why I try to avoid player comps. They can pigeonhole players, often unfairly.

    What Player A did in a given year or over his career is irrelevant to what Player B may become. They are two different people in two different situations.

    #122435
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    well personally I don’t care for the miller pickup. hes a bad defensive player. yea hes left handed but that don’t mean hes going to hit. just seems like a waste unless they use him in a trade.

    #122436
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Willie – You say “that don’t mean he’s going to hit”. Even though he has a history of hitting? Especially against RHP? Please explain. Seems like he’s the perfect bat to come off the bench in the 8th or 9th against an opposing team’s right handed set up man or right handed closer. He did pop 12 home runs and had a .600 slugging percentage against RHP last year in only 148 PAs. That seems pretty decent, doesn’t it?

    #122438
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    well bccran, last year doesn’t mean he will do it this year. also those 148 PAs basically means it could go the other way this year. if all hes going to do is bat, it might be a worthy pickup for the situation you mentioned. i just prefer players that are decent at both. we already have a guy in munoz who can hit but isn’t a great fielder. why get somebody just like that unless you plan on trading one of them.

    #122439
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    They got Miller for three reasons –

    1.) He’s a left handed.
    2.) He’s a proven major league power hitter.
    3.) He’s a better hitter than either Munoz or Sosa for what they’re looking for.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 147 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years