February 18, 2018 at 7:02 pm #44133CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Sorry gscott but I think that is a huge overpay. I love Archer but not at that price. And then you want me to pay another $12 million for a guy with a negative WAR last year?February 18, 2018 at 10:10 pm #44135
Holy Crap!!! I’m not a fan of emptying the farm for that trade.February 18, 2018 at 11:28 pm #44136858booyahParticipantFree
I wouldn’t take Span in that deal unless they pay down almost all that deal and we can just dump him off. Take it or leave it!
You’re getting an All-Star Caliber closer and starter. Your going to have to give something up to make it happen. I do think Flaherty is too much to ask at the top and lol at Wisdom.February 19, 2018 at 12:03 pm #44178
It may be an over pay but we need to be thinking along those terms.
A rotation of Martinez, Archer, Reyes, Weaver, and Wacha for the forseeable future would be dynamite and might actually make the Cubs shake in their boots a bit.February 19, 2018 at 1:02 pm #44184
Plus the other part is the theory of taking advantage of other teams desperation to move big contracts. A few days ago someone at VEB posed the question of what all could the Cards extract from the Yankees by taking on Ellsbury. Torres? Andujar? Frazier? Robertson? Betances? We could then flip those prospects to Tampa for Archer or keep them ourselves. Same theory goes with Kemp from the Dodgers. That is why I brought up with the Span idea. No, we obviously don’t need him but by doing the other team a huge favor we might be able to reap a huge windfall.
Now we all know that none of this is likely to happen but someone needs to be thinking out of the box occasionally. It is more fun than thinking about who the starting 2B is going to be at Peoria. At least for me it is more fun. I know some of you are obsessed with the minor leaguers. I’m more concerned with what is going on at the big league level.February 19, 2018 at 1:47 pm #44186
Usually by the time players report to camp, the off-season activity has died down. This year is different, since there are so many free agents still unsigned. Even so, expectations should be very low for major trades this time of year, especially multiple ones, getting guys and flipping them. When players are in camp, teams want to focus on getting them ready for the season, rather than dealing with the disruption that goes with making big changes. Could there be exceptions? Of course.
For me, the “what if” game is far more interesting during the time of year when it has a better chance of actually happening. But, not everyone sees it the same way. That is one reason we have a special thread stuck to the top where anyone can think out loud about any ideas at any time.
To this specific discussion, if the Cards could get Colome or Archer, or both, that would be great – depending on the price. As nate will ask, I am not holding my breath, though.
At least I know come April 5, Peoria will definitely have a second baseman. 😉February 19, 2018 at 2:04 pm #44189
I’m not really in on Span..but i’d take him if it meant getting Colome and Archer
however i would exchange Hechavarria (and his 4.5mil plus arb money) for Span as HEchavarria would better suit our needs for a real SS somewhere on our club…though i’d consider taking them both if we could bring down the trade package…maybe keeping Kelly? or Hicks at least?
we can slide Span into the backup outfielder role and let Bader Garcia and Oneill play every day in Memphis
Hechavarria takes the extra bench spot early in the season…and maybe we work a trade of GGarcia as we have plenty of other capable guys with similar skill sets
it is very far from emptying the farm by the way Blackhills….. also what do you need the farm exactly for if you snag Archer and Colome and Span and Hech let’s say
-FLaherty’s need is replaced by Waino/Mikolas AND Archer AND Hudson… no real loss there to depth
-Kelly is replaced by Knizner…and Martinez and Ortega long term… short term we find a vet catcher to sit around on the bench
-Tuivalala is replaced by Colome…and Hicks is replaced by about 10 others who are high upside)
-Wisdom (though i might offer them Garcia instead) is replaced by HEchavarria and Munoz and a bunch of others in the system who are fringe
– Span can sit around on the bench as 4th OF and a little speed…instead of BAder sitting around…and Hechavarria can be a legitimate backup SS who coudl start if DeJong goes sophomore slump on us…we have no real depth at SS…a veteran GG level glvoe would make us all feel bit more at ease
at the end of the day we would snag 2 AS a gold glove SS and an aging 4th OFer…and take on some money while losing nothign that isnt replaceable from within our system outside of a veteran backup catcher though i am sure we coudl use Francisco Pena or BAron as the backup and not lose much out of what Kelly will give us due to the limited playing time
it’s super late to do anything like this…but so what…it improves the team in every way we are concerned about outside of another power bat…which i would argue we dont really NEED we just want because we THINK last year our offense was worse than it wasFebruary 19, 2018 at 11:25 pm #44220
I’d rather bring back Lynn than trade for Archer.February 19, 2018 at 11:36 pm #44221NJ315Participant
No Lynn is not that good. Don’t bring him back.February 20, 2018 at 12:01 am #44222
And Archer is overrated and many of you would ransom the farm.February 20, 2018 at 9:35 am #44242OnyxgemParticipantFree
Calling archer over rated is comical at bestFebruary 20, 2018 at 9:43 am #44244
Without context, these last few posts offer nothing that might convince someone on the fence either way.February 20, 2018 at 10:38 am #44249
IMO Archer is every bit as good as Carlos Martinez, if not better. The two of them combined with Reyes and Weaver could be a dominant rotation for years to come. I would stack that rotation up against the Cubs, Astros, Yankees, Dodgers, Nationals, etc..anyone.
Now maybe in a couple of years we will be able to say that Martinez, Reyes, Weaver, and Flaherty is a dominant rotation but that is still to be determined. Archer is a known quantity.February 20, 2018 at 10:58 am #44255
I really would love to read how Archer is so bad….honestly no spite or hate
a nice walk through about how he is not worth his contract and how his performance is terrible
especially when equated to other Cardinals starters or prospects
i have yet to see that yet i hear over and over how he is a bad investment and not worth consideration or discussion
The closest thing i have read is a high ERA and low win count….which is hard to even consider given both of those stats are some of the worst calculators for determining the value of a starting pitcherFebruary 20, 2018 at 7:31 pm #44285February 21, 2018 at 10:28 am #44410
supposedly it is reported the Rays are done with their tear down
i guess it makes sense to some degree as Archer and Colome are controlled and youngish to be around for a build up…Souza move was a head scratcher to me along with the Dickerson move…
still i’d swoop in and offer good young almsot ready pitchers for Archer and see what coudl happen…
what troubles me and confuses me is them also saying they are going to use a 4 man rotation for a while…with off days i guess it could work, but arent you just inviting trouble?
Archer + Hechavarria for the win IMOFebruary 21, 2018 at 10:40 am #44414CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Colome and even more so Archer will bring just as much or more at the trade deadline.February 21, 2018 at 10:43 am #44415
The Rays may be done for now but watch out in July. The Cubs got Quintana last July, maybe we can get Archer this July. Yes I know, wishful thinking.February 21, 2018 at 12:25 pm #44428
Agreed GS…still i think even the Cubs might have regretted not making that deal earlier…with the price they paid in Eloy I can’t imagine the price was much higher before that seeing as they dont have much else to offer
If i was considering moving my best trade piece in Archer at any time during the year i wouldnt have decided on a 4 man rotation for a month at any point….every day you gamble with an injury…and a 4 man rotation no matter how the games are scheduled seems risky…and only slightly less if you are planning on keeping Archer
Flaherty + Kelly + Gant + Artie Reyes + Greg Garcia
Archer + Hechavarria
They can ditch the 4 man rotation and even if they want to protect Flaherty Artie and Gant can fill in until Honeywell and Flaherty are as ready as the Rays want
They can slash payroll and go hard after someone or two this next offseason
They can still field a decent team albeit with 2 really nice top prospects in tow
Garcia, Gant and Artie all would have value even after they may be passed up for better options as quality bench players and bullpeners or back end starters
An potentially this year and future lineup of:
Kelly/Ramos (C). Cron (1b), Adames (SS/Robertson), Arroyo (3b), Duffy/Garcia/Schimpf/Robertson (2b), Kirmaier, Mallex, Span/Micah Johnson?, and DH Brad Miller/Ramos
isnt that bad…especially when they’d have money to go out and get a Pollock or good OF next offseason and a nice DH
the rotation of Snell, Honeywell, FLaherty, Faria, Andriese/Gant/Eovaldi/Artie
is also pretty impressive
and also both the lineup and rotation could be good and CHEAP for a while letting them pick and choose key FAs to bring in to make them competitive quicker
sure the rotation would look better with ARcher in it…but Kelly and Flaherty long term seem a better fit for the Rays than Archer does at his price (even if it is a good deal)
I dunno…the fit seems pretty obvious….even if we’d need to kick in another prospect or two …we have the types they’d want… outfielders, SPs, 2b types, crap we even have good DH types in Voit and JMartFebruary 22, 2018 at 1:55 pm #44501mbusappParticipantFree
Rays trade Dickerso (5.95M) for Daniel Hudson (5.5M) after signing Carlos Gomez for 4 million yesterday. Seems like their payroll is going in wrong direction, which could cause them to make another trade.February 22, 2018 at 4:14 pm #44514
fine with me…as long as Archer doesnt head to MIL or CHI i coudl handle it I think
with Maybin and Gomez to the Rays i’d have to think outfielders are set so the big key trade chips for MIL seem less an option…unless the took PHillips and Broxton and waited on them
I always forget about Ramos on their team…who is also making money
we coudl add him to the mix for trade too…solve our backup catcher concern if we movd Kelly..plus he is only signed for this one year so we’d have time for Knizner to get ready
Archer + Hech + Ramos + Colome
Flaherty + Kelly + Gomber + Tuivalala + GGarcia + Arozarena/Mercado/Machado + Gant/Artie Reyes + Plummer
craziness i know….so many players i lose count on how to group them…Flaherty and Kelly are big pieces for Archer with a little left over for Colome…the money savings would be huge for the Rays and the Cardinals woudl get good contracts and veteran players needed for a serious run this year…while still having plenty behind them in the system
Hech replaces GGarcia
Ramos replaces Kelly
Archer takes Waino or Mikolas spot
Colome takes Tuivalala spot
Waino/Mik and Norris and Hudson are next men up…
it’s all silly…i just forgot about Ramos and that he’d have some value for us should we want to move Kelly in a deal with them…they might not want to deal him either…but Ramos’ brittleness wouldnt be a problem for us as a backupFebruary 22, 2018 at 4:25 pm #44516
Can someone explain what the heck the Rays are doing? There is no way they are better with Maybin and Gomez instead of Souza and Dickerson. Its like they don’t even know how to properly do a fire sale. All they had to do was look at what Miami has done 3x now for a cheat sheet.February 22, 2018 at 4:32 pm #44518
they must have a plan….i am confused too…but there is no way they dont have a plan…February 22, 2018 at 4:35 pm #44521
It is definitely confusing…
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