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Same reason my private finances “are kept secret” from Joe public, it’s no-one else’s business. Key word is “private”.
I think any professional sports team that asks the public for money should be forced to show their financial records, including all revenue streams, to the public.
That would straighten out a lot of this public funding (A’s, Rays) real quick.
Private businesses are just that private. They don’t ask people for money, they offer a product which people can buy or not. No private business needs to show anything to the public. Public companies do.
They don’t ask people for money,
Both the A’s and the Rays are asking the public for money for new stadiums
“BikeMike might appreciate the fact that the Rockies have a higher payroll than the Cardinals, but I wonder how Nolan Arenado feels about it?”
Yeah, the Rockies have not been the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to allocating resources to players. They get regularly blasted by the local press and fans for their poor management. Just this past year they signed Kris Bryant to a long term deal, who has been a shadow of the player he once was. Then he missed most of the season with plantar faciitus (not sure of the spelling there), the same problem that has plagued Harrison Bader. They also overpaid for fan favorite Charlie Blackmon. That was a good PR move, but not a savvy business decision.
As for organizations that ask their communities to chip in for a better venue, it is not all one sided or out of line for a club to do that. The rationale for asking the community to help fund a better facility is that the club will generate more revenues for the area. The local community should benefit in two ways, one with added business, and two, the club theoretically will be putting more tax dollars back into the community due to higher revenues. In theory it can be a win-win.
Gordo: Free-spending rivals will force Cardinals to seek other advantages https://t.co/lEZpfE3Gkb
— STLToday Sports News (@STL_SportsNews) December 27, 2022
So he concludes that because of big bad Cohen and the other owners who aren’t playing nice (aka colluding to keep salaries down) that the Cards must pay their internally developed players to keep them as long as possible plus find more Goldys and Arenados in trade that other teams don’t want?
Did I get that right? Isn’t that basically a stay the course message?
“Just because the Cardinals can’t win bidding wars for elite free agents…”
It continues to amaze me the number of people who equate “can’t” with “won’t”… Or maybe these folks actually believe it is “can’t,” which would be even sadder…
I don’t think it is possible as he doesn’t make the final call. If he went rogue, he might end up like Correa – Chris, not Carlos, that is… 😉
Funny how the GMs/PBOs who are hired by owners who prefer to go low key take the heat from unhappy fans, while the big-spending owners get the headlines themselves. Most people outside of NY probably have no idea the name of the Mets GM.
It continues to amaze me the number of people who equate “can’t” with “won’t”… Or maybe these folks actually believe it is “can’t,” which would be even sadder…
In my opinion, the STL media has mostly treated the Cardinals with kid gloves compared to other markets like NY, Boston, and Philly. A lot of feel good, puff pieces usually.
The managing member of an LLC has the obligation to keep expenses in line with revenues. BDW is doing what he’s supposed to be doing. And at the same time, he’s continuing the Cardinals tradition of producing an entertaining and competitive product.
I think you’re right gscottar. Especially during the TV broadcasts which is to be expected as a result of such a close association with the ballclub. However, what bothers me most is the print media’s primary article on any given game. I rarely if ever miss a TV broadcast, so I’m not really dependent on any local writer’s description of a game in the next day’s newspaper in order to gain an insight on the action. However, when I do on occasion miss a ballgame, I find that a close look at a simple box score is much more informative as to the ebb and flow of a ballgame as is the game recap in the local paper. I will mention that I’ll miss Rick Hummel and I certainly miss Joe Strauss. I don’t care to drop any other names, but attempting to read some of these game articles is a good way to take on a quick case of vertigo. To put it in simple terms, I miss the days when a sporstwriter could describe the action in the next days’ newpaper in a manner that almost made you feel as though you were listening or watching on a radio or TV broadcast.
You have no idea what the financial statements of the team look like.
My guess is its a money gusher.
The money is in the growth value of member equity (units), not in the annual P&l. Why are people so fixated on money? It’s not how much they spend, as much as how they spend the money that’s available to spend.
I’m not interested in how much they spend, as much as in the development of all the young players – Carlson, Nootbaar, Gorman, Yepez, Burleson, Gomez, Walker, Winn, Baez, Cho, etc. They could be sitting on doorstep of one of the most powerful offensive teams in Cardinal history.Why are people so fixated on money? It’s not how much they spend, as much as how they spend the money that’s available to spend.
I’m not interested in how much they spend, as much as in the development of all the young playersI agree with part of that. History has proven that simply writing big checks to free agents is not a sustainable path to long term success. The successful organizations use ALL of the tools in their toolbox; free agency, trades, drafting, development, and the international market.
The Cardinals do a lot of those things well but I do feel sometimes they are too risk averse. Once in awhile they need to get out of their comfort zone. They are generally good at trades, very good at drafting and developing, and are getting better in the international market but have generally been weak with free agency. Signing Contreras was encouraging but too often in the past they go after the mid tier guys like Fowler, Leake, Cecil, and Matz and the results speak for themselves.
I’ve heard so many different numbers for the payroll in 2022 I don’t know what to believe.
So: What was the payroll fo4r 2022 and what is the payroll NOW for 2023?The Cards would rather go for trades. They like to see what kind of a teammate a player is, how he interfaces with the manager and coaches, with the front office, with the fans, etc.
A character check. Trading and then possibly extending is far different than handing out a huge long term contract to some FA. They made mistakes on the above characteristics with Leake, Fowler, Cecil, Miller, etc. They’ll be reluctant to make those kinds of mistakes again.You were the one who brought up the managing LLC partner keeping expenses in line with revenues. You must be assuming that’s what he is doing because you have no way of knowing.
The money is in the growth value of member equity (units), not in the annual P&l.
and how exactly do you accomplish this? Mr. Financial advisor
What did the Cardinals ownership buy the team for, Oliver? And what’s the value now? That’s where the huge ROI is, not a cash on cash return every year.
I’m reasonably sure that most people know that the construction of Busch Stadium was partially financed by both a financing plan drafted by the city of StL. to construct the new stadium in downtown StL and a long term loan extended to team ownership by StL Co. This was all done after Billy Jr. and his cohorts threatened to move the home playing field of the StL. Cardinals across the Mississippi River into an area called Madison Co. in Illinois if city and county leaders didn’t play ball and help them foot some of the bill for the new venue. I’m surprised they weren’t required to disclose profit margins in order to receive financial assistance from public entities to fund the construction of the new ballpark. In any event, Billy Jr. got what he wanted. It might also be pointd out that maybe he genuinely isn’t as wealthy as some would assume as witnessed by his obvious reluctance to over extend himself and possibly end up indigent and destitute. Hey, he and his family have to eat just like everyone else…Poor little guy.
So, several things going on here:
1) Yes, the Cardinals can spend more. They should be able to go right up to the competitive balance tax threshold with ease. Whether they do or not, most people wouldn’t care as long as they try to get better every year. For the most part, I am fine with where they are this year, the one area I would like to see them upgrade is bullpen. Where they are today is light years ahead of where they were six years ago in terms of roster construction.
2. Yes, the STL Post-Dispatch has long acted as the PR firm for the Cardinals rather than news REPORTERS. AS gscottar said, this simply would not happen in larger markets.
3. Valuations are based on expected future cash flows. DeWitt clearly tries to operate on a cash-flow positive basis every year.If you want to learn more about William DeWitt, Jr., check him out on Wikipedia. He’s been involved in many other investments besides the Cardinals.
I think most people mix up the current year cash flow versus team valuation. LACardFan hit the nail on the head when he said the team valuation is based on future cash flows. It does not represent cash in the bank until the club is actually sold.
Payroll is financed thru cash flow generated by current year operations less returns provided to investors. I am assuming the Cardinal ownership group expects a positive return each season. No one really knows how much, if any, cash the ownership group gets returned to them year-by-year.
The more relevant gauge of payroll size should be team revenue. Data I have seen on this site and others suggest the Cardinals revenue ranks higher than their payroll. As such, they should be able to spend more.
One more thought. Mo has said in the past that the club preferred not to spend all the payroll budget before the season started. Rather, they wanted to hold some money in reserve to allow for potential deals at the trade deadline if needed.
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