- This topic has 196 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
But given the state of the Cardinals, it is hard for me to fathom them waiting until overall pick #90 or later to try to get more pitching help.
There just aren’t that many first round pitching talents in this draft.
Even if there were such talent available it won’t hit the major league until the ’26 to ’28 seasons …
I guess could be used in a trade.
LACF said:
There just aren’t that many first round pitching talents in this draft.
I guess it depends on whether or not the Cards see it that way…
I am a bit confused. Flores and the amateur scouts do a great job on the draft, but once the players are signed, LaRocque and player development are the failures? Is that what folks perceive? If so, why?
Are the national observers who rank the Cardinals system in the top half overly optimistic? What do you all see that they are apparently missing?
Perhaps some of us may be guilty of hyper focus on one system…
My own opinion is that acquisition and development are two heads sprouting from the same bow tie wearing neck, the entirety of which needs to be lopped off and fed to the jackals.
I conclude that the system has failed based upon observation of the results. The objective is to supply the ML roster with what it needs either by calling them up or trading for what is needed. My opinion is that it has failed to accomplish that objective. That the ML team is historically terrible and there is nothing in the upper levels supports that opinion. Moreover, the state of the upper levels right now reflects the effectiveness of development in the lower levels recently, and there is no good reason to think that anything has recently changed in that area.
I am aware that lipstick can be applied by various means, but the results are right in plain sight.
We are going to know a whole lot more about what the Cards are trying to accomplish for 2024 by the end of this month.
They can and desperately need to get a head start on fixing both the starting rotation and the bullpen.
Hopefully Bill and Mo won’t drink their own koolaid again and count on in house talent to (a) actually be good / ready and (b) stay healthy – as neither of these things occurred this year
I have serious doubts that they will make the right moves but – we shall see…
I am impressed with the Cardinal drafting department under Flores. They have combined drafting some high floor college guys along with some high ceiling high risk high school guys. There are a lot of teams that will regret passing on Walker and Winn and perhaps Hence.
The development side has been more hit and miss. Guys like Edman, Donovan and Noot have been successes but why do certain players thrive elsewhere but not here? Arozarena and Garcia are two obvious ones but also look at Lane Thomas. He his putting up big numbers. Why can’t Dylan Carlson do that? Will he do it elsewhere if he is traded?
The 2024 draft will probably be one of the most anticipated drafts in Cardinal history due to us having a top 10 or perhaps top 5 pick.
Critical Developmental Failures are a Key Factor in this Lost Season (Offense)
The Cardinals have a strong history of developmental successes, but their inability to lead players to their MLB potential have been critical to their poor season. https://t.co/KaXojiOjK2 pic.twitter.com/l1RaeYkmq5
— viva el birdos (@vivaelbirdos) July 8, 2023
I don’t consider the VEB writers to be experts, but maybe they are, I don’t know. Most of the above seems to me to be number salad, but the part concerning Walker illustrates results based evaluation of the system With some editing for brevity:
” . . . Walker is a defensive disaster. His OAA is -9. His DRS is -13. His UZR/150 – a stat that projects a players UZR for 150 games played – is -20.4. Ouch. This is one of the worst half-season defensive stat sets I have ever seen. . . . If you project his current performance forward to match full-time outfielders at this point in the season, he would sit just ahead of Kyle Schwarber as the worst fielder in the league. It takes a ton of offense to overcome that level of defensive ineptitude. Walker has been good, but not that good. He currently sports a -0.4 fWAR. . . . if the club planned to use him on the MLB roster early this season – and all indications are that they did – they needed to do more to prepare him defensively. They both failed to do this and failed to evaluate his defensive readiness. Or, perhaps, failed to care. Any way you look at that, it represents a significant developmental failure that’s costing them.”
I agree with that, and I ask myself this: if they have commited a “sigificant developmental failure” with their #1 prospect, what is likely to have happened with countless others throughout the system.
Yeah I was glad to see the VEB writer mention Walker’s defense because it seems to me that 90% of the discussion surrounding Walker this year has been regarding his bat but the last time I checked defense does matter.
Yes, Walker is a DH
I wouldn’t be confident making that conclusion yet. He is a terrible outfielder right now, but he came into this season with only 30 games of outfield experience in the Texas League. That tells us a lot about the Cardinals management team’s dementia but not much about Walker’s chances of becoming a satisfactory outfielder.
IMO, the best available evidence upon which to guess at his chances in the outfield would be how good of a defensive third baseman he was. He had around 70 games there earlier in 2022 and around the same number in A ball in 2021. That is enough of a look to gage his ability level. Sadly, I would assign zero weight to whatever the Cardinals staff might have had to say about that, having been peering through 8 inch thick hype colered lenses, and having their faces glued to a radar gun display slobbering over exit velo the whole time.
IMO, the best available evidence upon which to guess at his chances in the outfield would be how good of a defensive third baseman he was.
Why would 3B have anything to do with OF?
In terms of ability to play 3B, he was about the same as Juan Yepez, based on the stats that are available (fielding %, errors).
I think that this draft will tell us if Mo finally is acknowledging his HUGE mistake in leaning into pitchability and pitch to contact vs. bat missing, power, riding fastballs at the top of the zone (like every other successful team). If he’s finally awoken, I see the Cards drafting more college pitchers with big stuff and maybe questionable command, instead of 91-92mph. Once this draft ends & I read about the pitcher’s stuff, I’ll know if there is hope for the future. If it’s more of the same Pete Hansen’sof the world, well, you know…
I do not object to pitchability at all. It does take skill to develop and utilize that skill set, primarily in the area of pitch sequencing. The issue always comes down to developing the ability to finish off advanced hitters in the upper levels and MLB. With the power guys it comes down to control and good enough off speed stuff to keep advanced hitters from sitting on the heater. To me finesse beats firing it in as hard as possible hoping and praying until you blow your arm out. In either case control is the key. As to Hansen, he has the pitchabiity tools but I doubt the Cardinals will get any more out of him than McGreevy. A potential Woodford. Its too bad. I’ve seen enough bum shoulders and would not like to see them draft the next one waiting to happen, but I don’t think they have the wherewithal to develop anything else. There is evidence of it at least.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.