2021 Rule 5 draft

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  • #176242
    1982 willie
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    Bccran here you go again. I did no Monday morning quarterbacking. Bottom line is you mentioned his numbers at A ball. Like I said, doesn’t mean anything. I don’t personally remember the player in question. People said it was a mistake not protecting him. Time has proven otherwise, he turned out how he was going to turn out.

    #176245
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    gscottar said:

    As for Plummer, I am skeptical of players who do absolutely nothing for five years then have a good year. Could he just be a late bloomer? Yes he could be or maybe 2021 was an outlier and he will regress back to the norm, which means his value is currently as high as it will ever be. I would at least listen to what other teams would offer. Delvin Perez might be in the same boat.

    Please check out the Comeback Player of the Year article. As a rookie, Plummer was 25% above league average. Then he was hurt a year due to a hamate injury (hard to recover from) and then had three averageish years. In 2021, he was almost completely consistent between Springfield and Memphis – over 40% above league average.

    It is reasonable to be skeptical, of course. But what does that mean in terms of action? Does it mean you wouldn’t protect/keep him?

    As for Delvin, he wishes he could have as good of a year as Plummer. He hasn’t been even a league average hitter anytime since his rookie year in 2016. He was 20% below the league at Double-A in 2021. No MLB team in 2022 is going to want a Dal Maxvill.

    IMO, Perez and Plummer are apples and oranges today, albeit both former first-rounders.

    #176247
    1982 willie
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    My thoughts though I don’t know all the he facts here but it seems plummer is on the rise. I would probably protect him if I was the Cardinals but again I fall back on what is their plan for him and what are they seeing in the numbers. Personally I don’t see criticizing the Cardinals on these protections of players that haven’t even had a shot in the bigs. Players that have, yea I criticize right away if I feel merited but these young guys are hit and miss. If they get taken and do well, good for them. I don’t blame management there.

    #176249
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    Plummer has both real and potential value. With most investment commodities patience is the prudent strategy.
    If Plummer plus Sosa bring in a Matt Liberatore and a catching prospect then I trade him. If he brings back Dominic Leone and Conner Greene, I would prefer John Jay’s career production as a Cardinal. If I end up with Ray Lankford’s career production, we were all fools for even discussing his departure.

    #176252
    LACardFan
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    Free

    With Dean, Williams and Moroff all now off the 40 man, seems a safe bet Plummer will be protected

    #176253
    stlcard25
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    If I end up with Ray Lankford’s career production, we were all fools for even discussing his departure.

    As one of my all time favorite Cardinals, Ray Lankford would be a pretty lofty attainment for Plummer (and an unlikely one, IMO). I’d be thrilled if Dylan Carlson ends up close to Lankford’s career numbers. Plummer is a couple steps below Carlson’s potential even. He’s definitely worth keeping around to see how he develops in 2022 though.

    #176263
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    If my count is accurate, we now have 7 roster spots open on the 40 man. We could protect quite a few players and still have 1 or 2 spots available to sign a free agent.

    #176264
    CardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    Regarding Plummer, I don’t see how you don’t protect a guy who had a .415 OBP and an OPS close to .900 in AA and AAA.

    Bader always seems like a “young player”, but he only has 2 years of control left, and is going to start getting expensive. Having a guy who could play CF that could be a high OBP guy (potentially leadoff hitter) is a great luxury to have.

    #176272
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    Bader getting “expensive” is not a good reason for the Cardinals to move on. The Cardinals are not the A’s, Rays or Marlins who claim poverty to get revenue sharing. They are not the Pirates or Royals who have more real budget constraints. The better argument is Plummer’s OBP would look great at lead off if he can sustain a well-above average OBP at the major league level.

    #176292
    Bw52
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    On the fence with Plummer.Leaning towards protecting him.As for Baker ..on the fence.Delvin Perez..bye..

    #176293
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    When is the article on minor free agents and Rule 5 going to come out?

    #176299
    gscottar
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    It is reasonable to be skeptical, of course. But what does that mean in terms of action? Does it mean you wouldn’t protect/keep him?

    I stated a few days ago that I would protect him because he would be good trade bait and I stand by that.

    But it would depend on the return. If we could trade Plummer and Perez for another Liberatore I would do that for sure.

    #176304
    Cardinals27
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    With Williams, Dean, and Moroff being removed from the roster, it appears that they will be protecting more players. I am leaning towards Pacheco and Walsh being added because it is much easier for a team to “stash” away a power armed reliever for a year, than a position player. Donovan should be added too.
    I also think Plummer surely will be added since he can walk as a minor league free agent. Maybe add Baker as well.

    #176305
    bccran
    Participant

    Willie – A ball numbers don’t mean a whole lot. But they also don’t mean nothing. It’s means they got off to a good start as a professional.

    #176309
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    It never ceases to amaze me when people post strong opinions about players they have never or barely seen. The eye test could someday be seen as scientifically superior to analytics because it contains the added dimension of intuition. Many groundbreaking studies reveal the amazing accuracy of intuition.

    Back to my point. Delvin Perez can play and will be a major leaguer someday. Does anyone appreciate a glove first shortstop in this fan base? One who can run and may develop as a base stealer…has this type ever helped us before?
    Perez has a batting approach that needs discipline, but that is because he can make hard contact and really rips the ball with authority more than anyone looking at his line would believe.
    He has never held on to his muscle mass, but all men eventually do.If he ever did put on his annual reported 20 pounds of muscle, we could be looking at someone special.
    I remember having this same issue with Pete Kozoma after people simply looked at an A ball error total. People were ready to give up on Sosa prematurely, and I pondered if Elvis Andrus at league minimum salary had any value. Perez is closer to Andreleton Simmons than Pete Kozoma.

    #176310
    bccran
    Participant

    A lot of truth there, Nigel. That’s why I go to Spring Training every year and watch all the minor leaguers in both workouts and in games against minor league teams from other organizations. The up close and personal observations are helpful in assessing talent.

    #176313
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    You can see,as was the case with Nogowski, some players just move about the field and you can tell they are the best players on the field. You wouldn’t have thought Nogowski was anything close looking simply at stats, but many nights he surely was.

    BC, I envy you greatly and it often shows you have seen kids play when you post observations and opinions.

    #176353
    gscottar
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    I have never seen Delvin Perez play in person but I have read a lot about him and I have praised him several times over the years on this board, often times the only person praising him.

    My point is that if we need to free up some 40 man spots them Plummer and Perez might be good trade candidates. Trading them is different than not protecting them from the rule 5 draft. I have never said we shouldn’t protect them from the draft.

    It really comes down to do you believe their breakout seasons are sustainable or were they an outlier? If you think they are sustainable then you keep those players. If not you see what value they have around the league.

    #176372
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #176383
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Just cut Plummer!? That’s a shocker. I’d sure like to hear the reasoning behind this.

    #176388
    Cardinals27
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It will be interesting to see how Plummer fares with another team. Maybe he wants a chance to start, as his chance of starting with the Cards may not have been good next year. That being said, depth is important, as we found out with our starting pitching this year.

    #176394
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    Wow…I really thought I saw something with Plummer.He swung so hard that I thought his power was developing, not flukishly peaking.
    Worse yet…Et tu Dennis Ortega. I fancied Ortega a future MLB player.

    I am surely no seer, and I may have to rethink my entire philosophy on existence. It genuinely hurt me when Brian left him out of the top 50. Once again Brian is right. I was wrong. Brian is tall. I am a lesser man.
    Ortega is gone. So much heartbreak.

    #176396
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I like Ortega – defensively – a lot. He just can’t hit consistently enough to make it, I fear. Sometimes he looks great at the plate, but too often, he was an easy out.

    #176397
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’m pretty surprised that they let Plummer go for nothing too. They must feel they are going to need to protect a bunch of guys on the 40 man here soon.

    #176401
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    What if they planned to actually go for it during Nolan and Goldy’s primes to spite Shildt, and they signed six or seven significant FA’s proving most message board posters like us are simply conservative fuddy duddies.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 132 total)
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