September 24, 2020 at 6:26 am #141506Minuteman3ParticipantFree
After his 9/23 gift to the Royals I doubt that Carlos’s name is very high on any acquisition lists. I don’t know what injury he sustained last night but when he grabbed at his side I thought it was just a broken heart. Good luck Carlos. My only hope is that they don’t put you in the pen in’21. I am currently having my heart tested and don’t need any more stress on it.September 24, 2020 at 7:59 am #141525
So much for CMart having any trade value. He and his $11.7M will be in St. Louis next year. Hopefully he can rebound.
It is looking less and less likely we will have much payroll space to find a big bat. Unless Wong doesn’t return.September 24, 2020 at 8:25 am #141529
Martinez would need to rebound and be dealt by the deadline (2021). The next available trade after that would be the 2021-22 offseason, and that would require STL to activate his 17mil club option before free agency started, just to deal him.September 24, 2020 at 8:53 am #141533forsch31ParticipantFree
While I like Martinez, I am tired of the constant promise but hasn’t really delivered. I think it is time to trade him. If the Cardinals wait until after 2021, they have to pick up his option or offer him a qualifying offer to get ANYTHING in return. I’m not sure anyone would want him at the $18 million option. A team would take a flyer on him at the $11 million he will get next year.September 24, 2020 at 9:09 am #141539
Two opposing viewpoints on CMart. Which do you favor?
New at @stltoday: #STLCards and Carlos Martinez have been ignoring the obvious. That has to stop after Wednesday. If Carlos Martinez has a future in St. Louis, it needs to be in the bullpen. (You know, the place where he's been good.) https://t.co/I4DJlkjoxk
— Ben Frederickson (@Ben_Fred) September 24, 2020
Carlos has started 5 games this season. A season in which he was hospitalized with Covid.
Make silly sweeping judgements based on other years of you like, but making any determinations off of this stupid year is, well, stupid.
— CITY SC is tearing down the City (@jstriebel22) September 24, 2020September 24, 2020 at 9:25 am #141543
He’s sporting a 3.46 ERA, 1.295 WHIP, 8.9 K/9, 2.62 K/BB as a starter.
3.37 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 8.7 K/9, 2.45 K/BB as a reliever.
I don’t know how you can say that based on his career, he’s been better as one or the other. This year, he’s not been good as a starter. If they are going to force him into a relief role, it would have to be next year. Regardless, the only future with St Louis he could have long term would be starting. They won’t exercise the option for 2022 on a reliever.September 24, 2020 at 9:43 am #141546
I will never advocate for him to be a reliever but that is just me. Like 25 says the Cards might be able to justify one year at $11.7M as a reliever but certainly not $17M. They would have to decline the options and negotiate a smaller contract, which seems unlikely to me. 2021 is probably his last year in St. Louis.September 24, 2020 at 9:47 am #14154714NyquisTParticipant
teams that see Martinez as a fit for high-leverage relief don’t have fresh evidence from this season that suggests he’s still capable of that job, and they could press pause upon learning that Martinez seemed resistant to a bullpen role earlier this season.
If the Cardinals do move forward with Martinez, and that might be their only decent option, the path forward is simple.
He must accept that he belongs in the bullpen now, where the Cardinals should have assigned him from this season’s start.
The Cards can’t/won’t trade Martinez (little value). I think that the reason he is starting has something to do with his relationship with Molina. Yadi calls many shots and Shildt can’t/won’t do anything about it.September 24, 2020 at 10:06 am #141554
I think that the reason he is starting has something to do with his relationship with Molina. Yadi calls many shots and Shildt can’t/won’t do anything about it.
It has been mentioned many times here and Brian reiterated here in this thread:
I mentioned to Danny Mac today that his situation could be like CMart last year at this time. Shildt and Maddux told him what he needed to do to get the chance to start. He then worked all winter to check off all the boxes.September 24, 2020 at 10:16 am #141556
Yadi is setting the rotation? C’mon now…September 25, 2020 at 1:43 pm #141837BobParticipantPaid - Annual
I think Woodford is still getting better every outing… see his last two.!
He may not throw quite as hard as a couple of the other pitchers, but his command
has been dead on this year… only 5 walks..!September 25, 2020 at 2:15 pm #141840Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
The only Woodford I like a lot is Woodford Reserve bourbon. To me, Jake is a 5th starter at max. He doesn’t miss enough bats.September 27, 2020 at 12:43 pm #142122September 27, 2020 at 12:50 pm #142126
Not unexpected at all. Such is the risk involved in this circus season. See ya in 2022, Dakota.September 27, 2020 at 12:55 pm #142127
Still a lot of depth available, especially with Mikolas coming back. Still, that may make Carlos or Reyes a candidate to be back in the rotation next year.September 27, 2020 at 8:37 pm #142310CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Will Mikolas be ready at the start of 2021?September 29, 2020 at 3:57 pm #142556bccranParticipant
Please no more Carlos. Trade him if you can and get rid of his salary.
OviedoNovember 15, 2020 at 4:13 pm #147427
Someone in the MLBTR chat asked about a possible Carlos Martinez for Gary Sanchez trade. The reply was STL probably wouldn’t due to Carlos upside. Any takers here?November 15, 2020 at 4:29 pm #147431
It could be a double backfire if the Yankees were to turn around and sign Molina and he and CMart had a good season together. Of course the Yanks might go after Realmuto instead.
bccran, Miles Mikolas is wondering what he did to you… 😉November 15, 2020 at 4:33 pm #147432
Yes, I’d endorse that trade. Yes, I’d also endorse non-tendering Sanchez. There’s CMarts salary reclaimed, spend it where you like.November 15, 2020 at 5:17 pm #147433
You call out an important distinction. Did the person asking in that chat about the feasibility of the trade understand the salary mismatch? If not, then they are missing key details.
Sanchez’ arb-driven salary would be half of Martinez’, according to MLBTR’s estimates. NYY would have to want CMart pretty bad to make that trade even up. And if the Yanks don’t want to pay Sanchez, they could just non-tender him themselves. So, is CMart worth full value to them? Very questionable not knowing his health and given the number of other pitchers who will be in the free agent market soon, and probably at lower prices.
That was a long-winded way of agreeing with you, jj. If the Cards could make that trade to get out from under ALL of CMart’s salary – AND they use the money to help the offense – then yes, do it. I don’t think the Yanks would do it, though. They can get more pitching for the money elsewhere.
For example, the Jays signed Robbie Ray, a pretty good comp for Martinez (as a 2-3 WAR pitcher), for $8 MM.November 15, 2020 at 6:08 pm #147435
And the FO would have until the non-tender deadline to flip Sanchez for whatever they could get, which is probably what the NYY are doing now. Teams may just be waiting to see if Sanchez is non-tendered, and if not, strike up trade talks after.November 15, 2020 at 6:26 pm #147437
It’s not my money and there’s no chance the Cards would use the savings for anything other than pocketing it, so I wouldn’t make the trade. With the team having a slight window to contend in 2021 anyway, I don’t see how letting Carlos start to build some value for the trade deadline hurts anything at all. If he pitches reasonably, he may get you an actual prospect at the deadline, rather than throwing him away.
There are some potential sell high candidates on this team, though. Reyes and Gomber stand out. If you don’t trust Reyes to be what we hope going forward, you can always dangle him in a trade for a close to ready OF prospect. Gomber as a tweener probably will never find a certain rotation spot here, and he looked good late in the season. Some team would be interested in a swap.November 15, 2020 at 6:45 pm #147438
As stlcard25 made clear, it all depends on your assumptions…November 15, 2020 at 9:24 pm #147446mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I have not given up on CMart because I think he could return to form as a top of the rotation pitcher for some teams. His problem is his head. He’s in his late twenties and he is still immature and irresponsible. You would think that he would grow out of that at some point. He had problems with weakness in his right shoulder in 2018, and he was sidelined at least twice because of the weakness. The end result was 118 IP in 2018. He was supposed to do a conditioning programs that the Cardinals gave him during the 2018 offseason, but he showed up at spring training in 2019 with a shoulder that was still out of shape because he did his own strengthening program instead of what he was told was needed by the Cardinals trainers. I don’t know for sure how his shoulder was after the 2019 offseason. He had little chance to show what he could do in spring training because it was so short. Then, later durng the summer, right after the abbreviated 2020 season got going, he caught the coronavirus. The coronavirus really had a terrifying affect on CMart. He got so sick, for so long, that he thought, surely, he was going to die. He never fully recovered during the 2020 season as shown by his performance on the mound in 2020. Now if CMart gets everything back that was taken from him by the coronavirus, and if he does the conditioning that he is supposed to do in order to get his shoulder in shape, then there is little reason to think he couldn’t return to his previous form when he was pitching well. He’s still only 29 years old, and he only gets paid $11.7M for 2021 which is peanuts for a veteran starting pitcher. So, I think we should wait until spring training to find out what he’s capable of. If he pitches well, and especially, if he pitches really well, we should be able to get a top tier prospect for him in a trade. In fact, there will be those who won’t want to trade him at all. You have to think that someone has told CMart about the handwriting on the wall and that it’s in best interest to show up at spring training totally fit. If he shows up as the head case that he’s always been, that is, overweight and out of shape, then either release him or hide him somewhere on the IL or in the bullpen until the end of 2021. Best scenario is that he pitches like a stud and somebody has to cough up a top prospect, maybe an elite prospect, in order to get him.
Nothing like some wishful thinking to end off the day.
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