2021 Rotation

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  • #170970
    bccran
    Participant

    That’s interesting. We always talk about Yadi for the Hall, but rarely Waino.

    #170971
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    The was a long list of possibilities before 2021 started. I do not trust this list nor the coaching staff or organization to be good in 2022 status quo.

    Additions and changes need to be made.

    #170972
    bccran
    Participant

    It’s a season later, ZTR. Takes awhile for prospects to develop. Oviedo and Libby are just about ready. Put them with Flaherty, Hudson, Mikolas, Kim, and Waino and it’s pretty strong.

    #170974
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    No use fretting over it ZTR. The laundry list crowd loves their fixer uppers and wannabes.

    #170976
    bccran
    Participant

    BB – I’m afraid few teams would ever have a perfect rotation of guys who are all at the peak of their careers and who have never had any injury issues. I believe and declare that’s utopian. And even with that, you’d still have to have 3 or 4 guys in the wings. Including stretched out guys at the AAA level ready to step in as best as they can.

    #170979
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Flaherty – TBD
    Hudson – rehab guy looks OK so far, will know more soon
    Kim probably – would be good 6th starter, can go 5 sometimes
    Mikolas – IL fixture rehab guy looks sort of OKish, will no more soon
    Wainwright – 40 year old stud still going strong
    Reyes – extensive history of not staying healthy wants to push luck starting
    Happ maybe – 99 year old guy on fumes but can still do 5+
    Lester maybe – 99 year old guy on fumes, check engine light on
    LeBlanc maybe – 99 year old injured guy
    Libby – hyped guy magically beamed to top of system without much track record of dominance at upper level
    Oviedo – 2020 beamed up guy not ready for prime time, looks like maybe #4-5 starter at best
    Woodford – under .500 with 1.4ish WHIP in minors, emergency warm body for MPB rotation
    Thompson – Beam up guy with 15 IP below AAA where he’s been pummeled. August WHIP 1.4 – 1.5 ish.
    Rondon – 6th year in system, been a .500 pitcher the whole time. Warm body for 2022 rotation.

    What could go wrong.

    #170980
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    Between injuries and scrap heap specials not to mention trying to crystal ball player development it would be nice to add a couple of legitimate middle of the rotation starters…..

    #170985
    bccran
    Participant

    You can detail the same kinds of things about guys in almost every rotation in the majors, BB. Nothing new. Again, you’re looking for utopia.

    #170988
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Agree ZTR. By the end of the season or so there will be some clarity as to Waino, Flaherty, Mikolas and Hudson. We will have a better idea of whether a couple will be enough.

    #170990
    bccran
    Participant

    I get a kick out of guys who “categorize”
    players. Like the description of Rondon. Sure, Rondon has been in the minors for 6 years. He was signed when he was very young is only 23 right now. Sure he is .500 with wins and losses. A fairly meaningless stat which depends on the team around you, both offensively and defensively. But no mention that his ERA as a minor leaguer is in the low 3s. And that he’s getting valuable experience at Memphis this season.

    Oviedo? You’re right, he was beamed up.
    He was signed very young and is also only 23. They say he has great stuff, and is trying to work now on control.
    No one can predict if he will be a 4/5, 3/4, or 2/3.

    #170993
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Among the AAA crowd I am most optimistic about Rondon for a reason. If he can maintain a good ERA and WHIP as a regular in the AAA rotation he could be a helpful rotation piece some time next year.

    I hope Oviedo is successful working on whatever he is working on. Before he beamed up he had a 5.65 ERA and 1.6+ WHIP at Springfield. I am not optimistic about a guy who didn’t actually pitch his way out of AA and has been regularly and thoroughly beat up on in AAA whatever they say about his stuff. If he is successful as a regular in the AAA rotation next year I will be both surprised and happy for him.

    #170994
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It seems like we might see Liberatore this year some time. He seems to be growing into the AAA rotation slot after having been beamed up from A ball. I hope they slow down with him, let him have more than a handful of dominant AAA starts and look at a debut sometime next year. Ideally, a Hudson 2018 type thing, 20 or so AAA starts and bring him up end of July.

    #170999
    grayssportsalmanac
    Participant

    Free


    That’s interesting. We always talk about Yadi for the Hall, but rarely Waino.

    I always think about waino vs. mike mussina when it comes to resume. Always consistently good and some great years where he was one of the best in baseball but never really THE best. They both have rings but no cya. Somehow mussina was seen as a no doubt HOF yet adam will prob fall off after a few years. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense but i digress..if you take wins out of the equation i think waino is objectively the better pitcher..off topic i digress!

    #171003
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    .

    if you take wins out of the equation

    Funny. Actually, our whole system is pretty good at that this year.

    #171014
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I think Wainwright’s humanitarian efforts should be at least considered when deciding whether he should be in the HOF.

    #171016
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I love waino but he isn’t a hall of fame player. The cardinal hall of fame yes, but not MLB. Not even close.

    #171018
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I did a hypothetical on Waino in the off-season…his lost injury years ruined his HOF case but with how good he’s been in 2021, had he stayed healthier he would have had a shot.

    Could Waino Have Been a Hall of Famer?

    #171044
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Who knows, if Wainwright goes another few years and gets a lot starts against the Pirates, he might be a shoo-in for the HOF.

    #171049
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    Mudville the HOF should be based on their play, imo. Is why Rose belongs.

    #171050
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    Great outing Waino.

    #171054
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Ha! Carlson thought he flew out to Alford in LF and was going back to the dugout. Goldy laughed at him and pointed for him to go run around the bases for a homerun.

    #171059
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    .

    #171129
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    bcc…. Ponce called…. he said that you left him off of your list and that he is a possibility.

    #171135
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual
    #171475
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Adam Wainwright is the National League Pitcher of the Month for August.

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