2020 MLB Draft

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  • #127396
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    The way things are going, 150 could very well encompass the entire draft.

    #127401
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    This probably hurts 2021 draft prep more than 2020, but still not good news, even if not surprising…

    #127412
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I sure hope they can find some talented middle infielders in this draft. All they’ve got behind Dejong and Wong are Edman, Sosa, and Mateo Gil, if you want to even count him. Maybe there’s someone over in the DSL, but if there is, he sure hasn’t made any waves yet.

    #127418
    bccran
    Participant

    Mudville – you’re not a Kramer Robertson fan?

    #127425
    GameCard
    Participant

    Free

    I still like Max Schrock

    #127427
    bccran
    Participant

    That middle infield at Memphis of Schrock and Sosa is a good one, with Robertson the floating utility man.

    #127429
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    What happened to Evan Mendoza?

    #127441
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I see that everyone has given up on Delvin Perez too.

    #127442
    bccran
    Participant

    Does Mendoza play middle infield on a regular basis, and not just a trial basis?

    #127443
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran asked:

    Does Mendoza play middle infield on a regular basis, and not just a trial basis?

    Sorry, I cannot tell the future, but in the most recent past, the answer is yes. One has to assume it was done for a reason.

    #127444
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    All of the players mentioned here are utility types that we can get by with in a pinch. Sosa holds the most promise, IMHO. But he sure has taken a long time to develop. Robertson seems like a player you’d like having around as a utility player, but his bat has been unimpressive. I see him as a future manager or coach somewhere down the road. Max Shrock could help out at some point, but I don’t see him getting much traction in be bigs. The same goes for Mendoza, IMO. I thought drafting Perez was a mistake from the beginning. Drafting a player whose stats were acquired using steroids showed that there were guys in the front office who were either naive, stupid, or questionable in other ways. I’d like to see them come up with a middle infielder who becomes a budding star, somebody who is exciting to follow in his development. None of the middle infielders we have right now get much ink because none of them are standouts. BTW, everybody on this forum knows all this already. We need to get some games started, or at least the draft. I wonder if they could move the draft up a few days, say, like tomorrow, or at the very latest, sometime this coming week.

    #127446
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #127447
    bccran
    Participant

    In 254 minor league games, I have Mendoza playing the SS position in 10 games. In 211 games, he was at 3B. 21 games at 2B. 22 games at 1B.

    He has a long way to go if the Cards what to move him to SS.

    #127450
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    I sure hope they can find some talented middle infielders in this draft.

    This does not appear to be a good year for short stops

    What happened to Evan Mendoza?

    AA

    I see that everyone has given up on Delvin Perez too.

    Not given up, but definitely have lowered expectations

    #127451
    bccran
    Participant

    Human 2 iron with no bat. Good defense, though.

    #127455
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Human 2 iron with no bat. Good defense, though.

    This year will be/would have been a telling one for Delvin. He’s still only 21 and showed a few signs of the bat coming around toward the end of last year. Still, time is short for him to make an impact and if he can’t hit his way out of a paper bag he wouldn’t have a shot at big league playing time even if his defense was Ozzie Smith level (which, of course, no one’s is).

    #127459
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    As counter-intuitive as it sounds, a draft weak on middle infielders might be just what this front office needs to snag a keeper.

    #127461
    bccran
    Participant

    Pete Kozma was draft #18 overall in 2007. Delvin Perez was drafted #23 overall in 2016. Lessons weren’t learned.

    #127471
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    So, exactly what are the lessons to be learned as you see it? Scout better? Develop better?

    Is it a reference to one your oft-repeated guidelines for success – don’t draft high schoolers?

    Well, if so, then the Cards would not have some of their very best players and prospects, including:

    Dylan Carlson, OF, no. 33 overall in 2016
    Nolan Gorman, 3B, no. 18 overall in 2018
    Jordan Hicks, RP, no. 105 overall in 2017
    Jack Flaherty, SP, no. 34 overall in 2014

    P.S. To that point, here is an interesting factoid. On our current top prospect list for 2020, just two of the top 17 players currently in the system were college draftees – Andrew Knizner and Zack Thompson. None of the other 15 went to college – some were high schoolers and others were of that age or younger, signed internationally.

    #127472
    bccran
    Participant

    International prospects are a different story. I wouldn’t compare them at all to our high school kids for obvious reasons.
    As far as learning from your mistakes, when the Cardinals drafted Pete Kozma in the 1st round, a competitive scout laughed and said he was the only player he had ever seen who’s bat went backward when it met the ball. Do I think we should use a valuable first round draft pick on a no hit good field high schooler? The answer is no.

    #127473
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Here is what BA wrote about Kozma at the time.

    2007 Draft Scouting Report
    There may not be a true middle infielder drafted in the first round this year, but Kozma is as good a candidate as any. He impressed scouting directors when his team made a swing through Florida in late March, and he had a three-homer game in an Oklahoma 6-A playoff contest. Kozma has no true standout tool, but he also has no glaring weakness. He grades out as average to slightly above-average in every tool except power, and he does have pop. His instincts help him play above his physical ability at bat, on the bases and in the field. He has good plate coverage and uses the entire field, projecting as a future No. 2 hitter in a big league lineup. Coming into the spring, some scouts questioned whether he’d be a long-term shortstop, but he has no doubters now. A Wichita State recruit, Kozma draws raves for his consistency and energy as well.

    Your other example is Perez, who hit very well as a high schooler. His deal was the Cardinals gambling on his steroids – not a normal case.

    #127474
    bccran
    Participant

    Maybe the 2016 draft was an anomaly.

    1st round- Perez
    1st round – Carlson
    1st round – Hudson
    2nd round – Jones
    3rd round – Gallen
    4th round – Martinez
    5th round – Robbins
    6th round – Edman
    7th round – Knizner
    8th round – Tewes
    9th round – Fiedler
    10th round – Hudzina

    They had 3 picks in the first 34 picks.
    They decided to take a risk with 2 teenagers. One has worked out beautifully.
    One not so much. They mitigated the risk by taking 9 college players in their first 12 picks. The results of that are pretty obvious.

    #127475
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    And then there’s Plummer…. worse pick than Perez.

    #127477
    bccran
    Participant

    They didn’t do their due diligence with Kozma. When he was with Springfield, he led the league in Ks and errors. When asked about that, he publicly stated that if the grounds crew did their job he wouldn’t have so many errors. That didn’t endear him to Springfield Cardinal fans.
    He was probably one of these kids who always thought he was better than he really was. I’ll go with what an opposing scout told me, who was literally shocked that they used a first round pick on Kozma.

    Where did Carlson and Gorman rank in high school prospects the year they were drafted? I know Gorman won every power hitting contest he entered. Perhaps the risk was less with them than with guys like Kozma, Denton, Plummer, McElroy,
    Peoples-Walls, etc.

    I remember several decades ago when the Cards used a first round pick on a high schooler who was ranked as the 23rd overall best player from Southern California in the draft. Scout thought he had a big upside. He totally bombed.

    #127478
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    The general perception of pundits at the time seemed to be that the Carlson pick that early was a reach, sort of like your recollection of the Kozma reaction. I recall some explaining Carlson as a money-saving pick.

    On the broader point, I try to be careful to not use one person’s reaction to anything as a firm validation. Scouts, just like message board posters or any cross section of people, can have very different views of the same player. Of course, 13 years later, as in the case of Kozma, hindsight vision is much closer to 20-20.

    Back in the day, the common complaint was why the Cardinals did not take Rick Porcello instead of Kozma. But if scouting was an exact science, the best player in the game, Mike Trout (yet another high schooler, from a cold-weather state on top of it), would not have been the 25th overall selection in his draft.

    P.S. It is also worth noting that an organization’s draft philosophy can shift with the identity of the scouting director. Jeff Luhnow received a lot of credit over the years, but was also in charge when Kozma was selected.

    2016 was Randy Flores’ first draft, but his predecessor’s illegal activity left him with no early picks in 2017 and he pretty much whiffed on the ones he had. No clear answers.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 967 total)
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