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Ny, all I can observe is that you have a polarized opinion on a complex situation. Every discussion seems to become an opportunity to slam the front office.
Not many Cardinals fans would have been in favor of letting Molina leave for another team as his Hall of Fame career nears its end. So far, he has made the decision to keep him look like a good one. Trying to deal with 25 different personalities might seem easy from this comfy tower, but the real world is a lot tougher to negotiate.
When all was said and done, the Cardinals appeared to get decent value for Kelly and I am sure we all wish him well in Arizona. What he becomes as a major leaguer is yet TBD. Knizner’s chance will come when he shows he is ready and until then, he still has all six MLB controllable years ahead.
To me, overall, this does not seem like a bad situation at all.
I’m not the only fan here that feels the FO is inept. As a matter of fact, there are many comments “slamming” the think tank upstairs and calling for changes and I’m sure you have read them. I don’t know why you like to single me out on certain team issues but I DO enjoy reading your comments and OPINIONS.
Some things I like to keep real. The lack of a sound front office and Molina’s roost are two. There are a couple others.
Yes, we all know how you feel about Fowler and Shildt, too. Of course, you can comment as you please, but it sure seems like there is a lot of negativism around here (not just singling you out). What is “real” is in the eye of the beholder.
The specific topic on this thread today was Andrew Knizner the prospect, yet the focus was turned toward Molina and the front office. OK, if that is what you want to discuss, then others will offer their view, as well. That is how it works.
I hear Knizner… I think Molina. Just the same as it was as Kelly. If you follow the dots, how could one not?
I would welcome any thoughts that folks have regarding Knizner. Although he’ll be stymied in Memphis for two more years, I think #6 on this list of prospects is damn good. (a good season at Memphis and he could very well be #3 next season with the graduations. I just want to see his potential blossom in St. Louis and not elsewhere (see Arizona).
Ny, from your remarks, I take it you would have let Molina walk and installed Kelly as the starting catcher. If I have that right, how would you have then handled Knizner? Why do you assume he will be “stymied in Memphis for two more years”? Why do you think he is MLB-ready now? I am having trouble connecting your dots as to what you think should be/have been done instead.
CC, another monkey wrench is…. Molina gets injured this season and we have Pena or Hudson taking over as the starter.
Br, the fact that Knizner can play 1B would be a major plus. Maybe some playing time playing there would be in order. Knizner will be totally ready for next season. But “IF” being the focal word here, the question is moot.
I thought that a two year contract for Molina would have been better for the team no matter how well he was playing. The dynamics of the catching position in the organization would have been very different.
I have no idea what you all are talking about. If Molina goes down with an injury, Knizner would come up from Memphis to take his place just as Kelly has done the last two years.
I am grateful that we have a hall-of-fame catcher that is still producing. That’s not a problem.
14NyquisT wrote:
I thought that a two year contract for Molina would have been better for the team no matter how well he was playing. The dynamics of the catching position in the organization would have been very different.OK, so I did misunderstand, Ny. Thank you for trying to clarify, but I am really scratching my head now. The reason for the scathing review of how the front office has handled the catching position is only because of the perceived/expected impact of the third year on Molina’s contract (which is still a year in the future).
You did not fully answer my question, but again, the inference I draw is that you would not have traded Kelly with a two-year Molina deal. If that is so, why not just say it? If not, please explain what you do mean. Thank you.
Also, what if Molina was still going strong after his second year (2019)? What would you have done this coming fall in that case?
I just don’t get how one year of Molina (in 2020) was the difference-maker for Kelly (if that is your root issue). Kelly’s and Molina’s calendars were always off.
If one wants to be critical of the front office for anything, I would argue it should be that it had looked like they waited a year too long to trade Kelly. But in the end, he was a key part of getting Goldy so it came out fine. (Of course, there is always a chance that Kelly could become a star, but that is not what most project from him at this point. Organizations have to take prudent risk to get better.)
bccran wrote:
The monkey wrench also comes if Molina goes down for an extended period of time.
OK, that is a risk, this and every year. I will ask you the same question I posed of 14NyquisT. What would you have done differently in the past or do currently to mitigate this risk?
P.S. Recall that last year, when Molina went down for an extended period of time, Kelly had his chance, but couldn’t cut it.
FREE article. The Cardinal Nation’s top 50 prospect countdown moves into the top five with the best power prospect in the #stlcards system. Still, Tyler O’Neill has yet to earn an extended shot in the majors and his 2019 picture remains unsettled, as well. https://t.co/nxGHp4y9Cf pic.twitter.com/eJ2URFPMBn
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 27, 2018
At number four in The Cardinal Nation’s #stlcards top 50 prospect countdown for 2019 is the Most Valuable Player of the Class-A Midwest League and one of three top organizational prospects who call third base home – Elehuris Montero. ($) https://t.co/Q0pJqmhHwC pic.twitter.com/2Cv3iPkHb0
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 28, 2018
Third in The Cardinal Nation’s 2019 top 50 prospect countdown is 3B Nolan Gorman, the #stlcards’ first-round draft pick who reached the Midwest League at age 18, the first first-year prep hitter to advance that far in the system in the last 44 years. ($) https://t.co/Fva32oVpgb pic.twitter.com/buwnuBiLKq
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 29, 2018
The 2nd-ranked prospect in The Cardinal Nation’s #stlcards top 50 countdown for 2019 was his leagues’ Pitcher of the Year the last two seasons as a starter, but has Dakota Hudson become too valuable to St. Louis as a reliever? ($) https://t.co/kSlhVpY4yz pic.twitter.com/0diU9qnNGz
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 30, 2018
“In a dream” 2020 opening day rotation Flaherty,Reyes,Hudson,Helsley and #5-#6 = Gomber/Ponce/Cabrera/Woodford. Very young, very talented and still leaves Memphis with a very good group of starters including AuWarner, Meisner and Kruczynski. I don’t like to think of injuries, but they happen but the Cards have sufficient arms to cover. We also have the talent of CMartinez and Gant in the STL bullpen if needed. Mikolas extension?
Regarding Gorman and Montero, I’m not 100% in on either. But I like the fact that they are ranked so high on the Community list plus our two prospect experts. I’d just like to give Brian and Derek a high five for their seriously fine analysis of the top-50. I also appreciate their remarking on each prospect’s placement for 2019. Where else can you get this type of information?
In the process of ranking players, Derek is a bit more daring than Brian on occasion. It doesn’t come up very often, but when it does, it gets your attention. I like it. Gives me something to watch a little more closely in the coming season and beyond.
Thank you, Ny.
mud, how come you don’t notice when I am more daring? 😉
Coincidentally, right now I am working on “The Final Tally” article that runs in a few days. In one section, I recognize our best and worst individual picks from last year.
While I think the TCN list is much better overall, I really like the VEB list every year because it always has some real unconventiinal rankings. Examples this year include Schlechinger at 28, Del los Santos at 22, and Ravelo e Nogoski at 14 and 15. Really forces me to go back and look at players sometimes.
I haven’t studied their lists in any detail, but for grins went back and scanned their top 30 list from a year ago. Looks like since Future Redbirds was assimilated, they may just have one prospect person.
Not a ton of difference in the lists, but here are ones that stood out to me: Arozarena #5, Hurst #19, Donivan Williams #26, Whalen #29, Patterson #30. No Ravelo or Nogowski. Wonder what the two first basemen did this year compared to last year to jump so much, as they got even a year older for a traditional prospect list?
On Schlesener, I am surprised you singled him out. I recall you saying many times over the years that (more than?) three years in short season ball is a red flag. He has four, having never sniffed Peoria to date. It looks like he is going to run out of time before getting close to the majors.
Not suggesting we are perfect at all. I am writing about our bad ones and good ones right now…
The funny thing about Nagowski is that he just appears to be the best player in the field in warm ups. He has that slick left-handed first baseman style. Just watching him move around, he has the power, style, and pizzazz of greatness, then you find out who he is and instantly discount him. You realize he bats right-handed, and forget about him completely.
Even worse for Nogowski, Ravelo (who turns 27 in April) is back to block him again. Hard to see how Nogowski is going to get out of Double-A without injuries to others. Ravelo can also play some OF, but the Cards have a lot of true OF prospects who are going to need at-bats. First base-only is a real limiter and Nogowski turns 26 next week. He is a nice player, but a top 15 prospect?
Ravelo has gone through a number of Rule 5 drafts without being taken, so he hasn’t caught another organization’s eye enough to justify a 40-man roster spot. Great guy to have at Memphis, though. Stubby liked batting him second.
Any realistic hope for Ravelo would seem to hinge on all of the first base options getting hurt. At this point, that is Goldy, Carpenter and Martinez. The Cardinals have plenty of outfielders on the 40-man already. It isn’t impossible, but I would peg Ravelo’s chance at getting on the 40-man and being called up at less than 5%.
P.S. After thinking about it some more, there is also a chance later on that the organization brings him up as a thank you for his time served. It has happened a few times in the past, though never represented that way publicly. Making the majors even for a week would be a huge deal to most minor leaguers.
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