2018-2019 Offseason Needs/Outlook

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  • #71450
    Avatarforsch31
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    There is a lot of discussion going on in several threads. Let’s put it all together into a thread to get everyone’s ideas as to what the Cardinals need to do this offseason.

    I think the team is a lot closer than it was a year ago but it still needs a major overhaul.

    1) Improve the bullpen. We need a dependable closer. I am not convinced that Hicks is the answer so I would like to see them go after Kimbrel in free agency.

    2) Improve the defense. Jose Martinez has to be traded. He may have a good bat but he is a severe liability in the field. He could be used in a package trade for something. Gyorko needs to be a utility player along with Munoz.

    3) Change the starting lineup so that it is not so heavily strikeout prone. We have too many innings ruined with a bunch of strikeouts with runners on base.

    4) Get healthy. It would help to have Wacha and Reyes healthy. If we have them, there are a lot of trade possibilities.

    I will have a few ideas to post later.

    #71455
    Avatarforsch31
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    Improving the bullpen.

    1) As I already said, go after Kimbrel as the closer. He is the premier closer on the market this year. I would like to have a dominant closer again.

    2) Re-sign Norris. He did a good job as the closer for most of the year. He has also expressed a desire to pitch for the Cardinals previously.

    3) Trade Cecil for a bag of batting practice balls or release him. Admit a mistake and move on.

    4) Find a lefty reliever. I am not sure Shreve and Webb are the answers even though they threw pretty well for the Cardinals. One of them along with another lefty would be alright.

    A bullpen of Kimbrel, Norris, Gant, Hicks, Brebbia, Leone, Webb and ??? would be a pretty good one.

    #71459
    AvatarBw52
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    Forsch–pretty much right on thhe mark.
    1.bullpen-i think Cards need a dependable Lefty(Andrew Miller,Justin Wilson) or a LP who had a down season but has a solid history (Jerry Blevins,Jake Diekman).As for closer ……just throwing this out for a option john Brebbia,Hicks and whichever Lefty is signed?I wonder if the Fo would spend the money on Kimbrel.I agree he would be a great signing .
    2.Norris-he seems to be a half/three season guy.Runs out of steam late but otherwise did good mostly.Not the worst option by any means.
    3.Cecil-i am with you .His ship has sailed.Time for a change.
    4.Shreve is a mystery to me.Throws decently but just never quite seems to finish the job.

    Defense-yes.Jmart needs to go to AL.Glove is just a killer.I put Gyorko is the same ship as Cecil-I like Gyorko but another option needs to be found.Even a glove first 3B who can make consistent contact would be good .I also want to keep Wisdom as a backup3b-1b pinch-hitter/bench guy.

    Health- yes.It seems like Cards had more than their share of injuries this season.

    Contact hitters- Nice thought and I think some guys will get better with more experience ;DeJong -should improve when hand heals completely,Bader and ONeill have improved yearly BB/K rate.As for contact hitters Cards have a potential RH bench bat at Memphis in Rangel Ravelo.All he does is hit .300 nearly every year and has a pretty good BB/K rate.Problem is he is mainly a 1B/LF who doesnt fit the power profile for 1B/corner OF.I say if he can show he makes good contact then why not give him a real chance to see if he can be a bench/PH/ option.

    #71477
    Avatarforsch31
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    As far as Ravelo being a below average power 1B/corner OF, I don’t really mind it. I think there is enough power in the other positions to make up for a non-traditional contact bat at 1B.

    Unfortunately, I don’t see DeJong, Bader or O’Neill ever getting too good as contact hitters. They all strike out a lot. If any of the 3 do become much better at being a contact hitter, I would expect it to be Bader.

    #71478
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    forsch, how do you see Ravelo coming back for next year?

    #71492
    Avatarforsch31
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    Unfortunately, I am not sure he will be back. It would take a multiple 40 man roster trade and him being added to the 40 man prior to his free agency.

    #71496
    Avatargrenadier1
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    If Machado ends up staying in Dodger blue, do they put Justin Turner on the market? Big salary and a lot of other bats to get into the lineup. 4.5 WAR in 365 AB, 33 and 2 years left on his deal. It’d be interesting if the Dodgers were interested in moving him.

    #71499
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    An impact offensive player is badly needed. I think that Ozuna will be better with an offseason of rest, and O’Neill could be another power bat for the OF. I also think that Dejong will look more like the 4 win player he was last year and early this year prior to his hand injury.

    That said, depending on Carpenter to put up another 5 war season would be a not smart move, and the bullpen clearly needs some stability. I wouldn’t necessarily hate going after a big upgrade in the rotation, either. But there is payroll available if the team chooses to use it, and that powder keg eventually will need to be lit to catch up to the teams in front of them.

    #71500
    AvatarPadsFS
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    I think you should forget Kimbrel and target Andrew Miller. He’s the LH version of Kimbrel and also older. I wouldn’t bat an eye at him getting the same contract that Wade Davis got. He has a much better background than Davis.

    #71506
    AvatarBw52
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    I might be in the minority here but I think Carpenter should be dangled as trade bait.Same with Gyorko.Some team surely would have interest in Carps bat.Gyorko is a FA after 2019 so why not see what he can bring?Jose Martinez as trade bait also.Angels need a 3B..Cozart could be trade bait for the Angels.Not saying go for Cozart.Rather see Cards try for Matt Thaiss 1B propect.Angels need pitching …maybe a package of Gyorko,Mayers and Andrew Morales for Matt Thaiss 1B.

    #71508
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    I think we should forget about the cards adding any impact player at all

    #71509
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    onyx, I get that outlook sets you up for not being disappointed later, but it must be awful to have no hope.

    #71510
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    If Machado ends up staying in Dodger blue, do they put Justin Turner on the market? Big salary and a lot of other bats to get into the lineup. 4.5 WAR in 365 AB, 33 and 2 years left on his deal. It’d be interesting if the Dodgers were interested in moving him.

    I wanted Justin Turner when he was a free agent. He’s a classic Cardinals type player. I would be a bit hesitant to trade with the Dodgers, though.

    #71511
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I think you should forget Kimbrel and target Andrew Miller. He’s the LH version of Kimbrel and also older. I wouldn’t bat an eye at him getting the same contract that Wade Davis got. He has a much better background than Davis.

    Miller lost a mph off both his fastball and slider this year. His strikeout rate also plummeted. That gives me pause. He’s probably going to get something like $12-15M a year, which is cheaper than Kimbrel will be, but the Holland Factor is a potential concern for sure.

    #71513
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Kyle Seager from Seattle would be a candidate for me in the non Machado sweepstakes. He’s a bit better LHH version of Jedd Gyorko…not a high OBP guy but has some pop and plays good defense. In fact, Gyorko and a pitcher like Weaver or Ponce might be a good package to offer.

    #71515
    thejagerthejager
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    Im not a fan of Seager at the money he makes…i think he’d frustrate the fanbase just like several of our other players who go through big peaks and valleys

    In the non MAchado 3b desire (and non aging vet Donaldson or Beltre) A guy i kind of like is Eduardo Escobar…had a really solid year, decent pop, good average, and a flexible player, he is only 30

    We could go with Escobar at 3b and transition him to other positions/roles if he ages poorly at the end of the contract he gets

    Or maybe we go defensive/speed and check a few fan desire boxes

    Go with Pollock + J.Iglesias and shift DeJong to 3b

    DeJong’s solid glove at SS will work fine at 3b where he has more history, Iglesias at SS is about as good as you can get… Pollock is an exceptional defender too

    -an OF of Ozuna/Pollock/Bader…with Oneill behind is very good even if Ozuna’s arm is a question…good range and decent speed
    -an infield of Carp, Wong, Iglesias, DeJong, Yadi…is very stellar if not best in MLB…Yadi is still top notch and Carp is fine enough, DeJong should be good at 3b, and up the middle of Wong and Iglesias is two Gold Gloves

    Iglesias and Pollock also add major team speed and even stolen base options too

    Pollock’s bat is pretty good and he is a well rounded player, Iglesias’ bat is not great but not as terrible as many think. Pollock has decent pop. Both make good contact and will not hurt us, but just might not give us the SCARY middle of the order bat many including myself really want

    #71518
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Jager, what do you think it’d take to sign Pollock? He’s an interesting case as he’s played like an All Star at times, been injured a lot and didn’t have a great year this year. At mid season I had him pegged for something like a Dexter Fowler deal…around 5/$85M. Now I’m thinking more like 4/60 or 5/70. Would you do either of those deals?

    #71519
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    What about a trade for one of the Mets pitchers? That franchise isn’t going anywhere and could use all the capital they can get. DeGrom is the biggest piece and the one I’d be very covetous to get. I’d probably be willing to trade something like Carlos Martinez, Carson Kelly and Dakota Hudson for him. Maybe more, if that’s what it took. Syndergaard is also an attractive option, although his injury history is scary. Either could be an ace of this staff.

    #71525
    Avatargscottar
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    First off, there will be thousands of posts this winter about Harper and Machado but just like last winter with Stanton I predict it will be just a lot of wasted keystrokes.

    I think the two biggest needs are a lockdown LH out of the bullpen and a big LH bat for RF.

    Andrew Miller could be a candidate if healthy. Yes, I know he is getting older but we are due for a high priced reliever to work out for us.

    As for RF the best trade targets would be Joc Pederson or David Peralta. Free agent options would be Markakis or Cargo.

    Trade Cecil even if we have to give him away.
    Trade Fowler even if we have to give him away.
    Trade Gregerson even if we have to give him away.
    Trade JMart but don’t give him away. I would expect a decent prospect in return for him.
    As for 3B, I would consider trading Jedd and making Wisdom the everyday guy. Same production but much cheaper.

    Do not re-sign Waino. We should be in the business of winning baseball games instead of trying to go down memory lane. Waino got his money. I don’t feel sorry for him.

    #71527
    AvatarBw52
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    If push comes to shove I would rather see Iglesias signed to be glove first SS and DeJong move to 3B.Don`t want any part of kyle Seagers monster contract.For what he makes you can get 2 or 3 solid role players.
    Not a big Pollock fan.he is okay but IMHO other areas need fixing more and since it is unlikely Fowler goes anywhere and Cards won`t eat that much money.

    #71528
    thejagerthejager
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    Spotrac has his value at 11m per year
    https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/arizona-diamondbacks/a.j.-pollock-10693/market-value/

    I think it will go up…they have him at 3yrs 33mil or so

    i think that is way low…i think 5year deal at 15 per…gets it done hopefully… 5/75…i’d do it only if you are willing to add another piece (add Escobar or Iglesias might be the types to upgrade in different ways)

    that gets him to age 35.. i am worried about his injuries though…which is the only reason i think he doesnt go up into the 18-20 range… but you never know with the market

    as for DeGrom or Syndi… im all in for DeGrom but not Syndi…but i dont think they touch CMart…I think you might be able to pry him with Flaherty + Hudson + Kelly….and i would do it, id even add in another solid prospect or two

    ive been feeling excited about not trying to outslug and go run prevention speed and defense lately…the fans love it, and it has real value on the field

    so offseason go with:
    -Pollock-5/75 (him and Bader fight for CF)
    -Iglesias-4/35 (DeJong to 3b…also protects us with having DeJong for backup SS)
    -Britton 2/15 (lefty and handcuff for Hicks)
    -Ottavino reunion 2/20 (strong setup and handcuff for Hicks)
    -trade for DeGrom- Jack, Hudson (maybe we can talk them into Woodford), Kelly, Mendoza, AdGarcia
    -trades of JMart, Gyorko
    -release Cecil and Fowler and no re-sgn GGarcia
    -re-sign Pena

    DeGrom,Wacha,Cmart,Mik,Waino….Reyes,Gant,Ponce,Woodford
    Hicks,Ott,Britton,Leone,Gregerson,Brebbia,Gomber, Gallegos/Mayers
    Carp,DeJong,Pollock,Ozuna,Yadi,Wong,Iglesias,pitch,Bader
    Pena,Wisdom,Munoz,Oneill

    that team is fast, good defense, run prevention on the mound and solid in the back end of the pen, the bench has power and versatility, and we still have depth in rotation and bullpen at Memphis. We dont have much power waiting at MEmphis outside of maybe Rangelo, but the team will have shifted from power to speed and defense and contact, Schrock, Arozarena fit that mold well, and Knizner will be advanced enough to contribute on offense if need be.

    #71536
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Check out this graphic. Only one of the 10 playoff teams developed more of their players internally than acquired them in trade. I find this very interesting.

    #71540
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    Does the homegrown include players who were acquired as minor league players like Wainwright and Jose Martinez?

    #71554
    Avatarmudville
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    I would like to see CMart stay our closer if he is truly on board with the idea. We need a stopper and CMart did well in that roll this year. Hicks isn’t ready yet.

    Trade Hudson, Weaver, O’Neill, and Kelly to the Mets for deGrom. IMO, this is risky because deGrom has only had one outstanding year. But if the Mets would do it, I think we should do it.

    Mikolas, deGrom, Flaherty, Gomber, Gant would be a rotation that is really tough.

    For all the negative comments about Jose Martinez, he still ended the season with a 1.5 WAR. His defense looks worse than it actually is. He has value. We ought to be able to get a really good LH reliever for him in trade even if it is one who is not established yet.

    For third base it sure looks like it will be Machado or Donaldson. The Cardinals will not get into a bidding war for any player, even Machado.

    FWIW – I think Fowler will be back in right field, and I think he will do well there. I’m not sold on O’Neill. He strikes out too much, and there’s something about him that makes me worry about injuries. I think Adolis Garcia is going to blossom. If not, we have other outfielders who are up and coming.

    #71561
    Avatarforsch31
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    A few thoughts on some of the proposals:

    Justin Turner – he is one of the 3Bmen I was thinking of being a good fit to upgrade 3B.

    AJ Pollock – I don’t see that he is an upgrade to Bader. For the money he will cost, we already have him for a lot less with Bader. I also fear he could be a salary drain like Fowler has been if he starts to decline.

    Kyle Seager – he has had only 1 season with an OPS above .800 and he is almost 31. I am not very interested.

    Jose Iglesias – he intrigues me as a 2nd or 3rd option. Obviously, he would be signed for his glove since his offensive contribution wouldn’t move the needle. Moving DeJong to 3rd would be OK or even trading him for someone like Anthony Rendon. (Although Rendon will be eligible for free agency after 2019)

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